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Old 09-30-2012, 10:46 PM   #1  
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Default I'm not happy unless the other guy is unhappy

Soooo... What's with the hate in these threads? Things like...
-I'm a lineholder and I don't want reserves getting the same retro check as me!
-I'm a reserve and don't think lineholders picking up trips should get all the retro pay!
-I'm a junior pilot and don't think senior pilots should get more retro pay than me!
-I don't want scabs getting a dollar more retro pay than any hard working REAL pilot!!

etc.....


With the prospects of this TA being shoved down our throats pretty soon, it seems like we're reverting to the thing pilots do best: beating on each other and losing sight of what the problem really is-






Remember, when it's time to vote on a TA, don't worry so much about the other guy. Just say

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Old 10-01-2012, 05:40 AM   #2  
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Originally Posted by LCAL dude View Post
Soooo... What's with the hate in these threads? Things like...
-I'm a lineholder and I don't want reserves getting the same retro check as me!
-I'm a reserve and don't think lineholders picking up trips should get all the retro pay!
-I'm a junior pilot and don't think senior pilots should get more retro pay than me!
-I don't want scabs getting a dollar more retro pay than any hard working REAL pilot!!

etc.....


With the prospects of this TA being shoved down our throats pretty soon, it seems like we're reverting to the thing pilots do best: beating on each other and losing sight of what the problem really is-






Remember, when it's time to vote on a TA, don't worry so much about the other guy. Just say

Could not have said it any better!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:11 AM   #3  
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+1.

Awesome artwork. Makes me think of the old Braniff scheme on DC-8s.........
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:16 AM   #4  
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+1.

Awesome artwork. Makes me think of the old Braniff scheme on DC-8s.........
That paint scheme actually adorned one of our 777s for quite a number of years. It was designed by Peter Max who was paid a ton of money to come up with a unique livery for the 2000 millenium celebration. I don't think any pilot is high enough to come up with something that looks like that...maybe our children but not us.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #5  
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Retro pay is not hard to figure out, this is from the LOA describing how it was done for CAL's Contract '97.

PAY TRANSITION
For application of the October 1, 1997 pay rates (retro pay) and during the Transition Period the pay rate applicable to a pilot shall be determined as follows:





  1. Pilots will be paid using the pay tables in the CBA applicable to the status in which they fly.
  2. The number of pilots receiving pay in each category within status (i.e., widebody, large narrowbody, and small narrowbody) shall be equal to the number of pilots staffed in that category/status each month.



LOA #5-3



  1. The most senior captains holding widebody captain on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award) equal in number to the captains staffed on widebody aircraft in each month shall have their pay computed using the widebody captain pay scale.
  2. The most senior captains holding either (a) widebody captain on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award) whose pay is not computed using the widebody captain scale pursuant to Paragraph 3 above, or (b) large narrowbody captain on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award), equal in number to the captains staffed on large narrowbody aircraft in each month shall have their pay computed using the large narrowbody captain pay scale. If the number of captains staffed on large narrowbody aircraft in a month exceeds the number of pilots described in (a) and (b) above, the remaining pay positions will be filled by the most senior narrowbody captains.
  3. All remaining captains shall have their pay computed using the small narrowbody captain pay scale.
  4. The most senior first officers holding either (a) any captain position on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award), or (b) widebody first officer on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award) equal in number to the first officers staffed on widebody aircraft in each month shall have their pay computed using the widebody first officer pay scale.
  5. The most senior first officers holding either (a) any captain position on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award) whose pay is not computed using the widebody first officer scale pursuant to Paragraph 6 above, or (b) widebody first officer on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award) whose pay is not computed using the widebody first officer scale pursuant to Paragraph 6 above, or (c) large narrowbody first officer on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award), equal in number to the first officers staffed on large narrowbody aircraft in each month shall have their pay computed using the large narrowbody first officer pay scale. If the number of first officers staffed on large narrowbody aircraft in a month exceeds the number of pilots described in (a), (b) and (c) above, the remaining pay positions will be filled by the most senior narrowbody first officers.
  6. All remaining first officers shall have their pay computed using the small narrowbody first officer pay scale.
  7. The most senior second officers holding either (a) any first officer or captain position on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award), or (b) widebody second officer on the Flush Bid (or any subsequent adjustment bid award), equal in number to the second officers staffed on widebody aircraft in each month shall have their pay computed using the widebody second officer pay scale.
  8. All remaining second officers shall have their pay computed using the large narrowbody second officer pay scale.


LOA #5-4




  1. At the conclusion of the Transition Period pilots who have either been unavailable for training or whose training performance has been unsuccessful will have their pay computed using the pay rate applicable to the lesser of their current staffed position or their bid award position.
  2. A pilot who holds a published line of time for two (2) consecutive bid periods following the award of the Flush Bid who subsequently becomes involuntarily reduced to a reserve in his incumbent sub-base will, if his awarded sub-base is different than his incumbent sub-base and was awarded with a bid choice of sixty-nine percent (69%) or more senior, have his MPG on subsequent months when his status remains that of an involuntary reserve equal to the line divisor for his incumbent sub-base, until he is advanced to his Flush Bid awarded position.
  3. Effective with the first bid period after the award of the Flush Bid, any pilots who are less than sixty (60) years of age on the award date of the Flush Bid, but who will be more than sixty (60) years of age on the effective date of the Flush Bid will not be counted against pay entitlements unless their awarded Flush Bid position is the same as their currently staffed position.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:45 PM   #6  
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In case of thread drift...

A) Refer back to OP.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:07 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by EWRflyr View Post
That paint scheme actually adorned one of our 777s for quite a number of years. It was designed by Peter Max who was paid a ton of money to come up with a unique livery for the 2000 millenium celebration. I don't think any pilot is high enough to come up with something that looks like that...maybe our children but not us.
Did anyone at CAL actually like that paint job?
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:44 AM   #8  
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+1.

Awesome artwork. Makes me think of the old Braniff scheme on DC-8s.........
I was saying it tongue-in-cheek. I thought he had just done an amazing job on photoshop---I had no idea it was real!
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:01 AM   #9  
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I was saying it tongue-in-cheek. I thought he had just done an amazing job on photoshop---I had no idea it was real!
Oh, very real which is why I pointed that out. Figured you assumed it was a fake. Friends from other airlines would send me photos of that thing in all sorts of places throughout the world asking what was up with the strange livery.

Don't know anyone who liked seeing money go to something that looked like that.

IIRC, Peter Max was chosen as the official Millenium artist for the NYC area. One of his paintings of the Statue of Liberty used to hang in international arrivals in EWR as you went down the escalators to baggage claim/customs. I noticed it's gone now.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:16 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by LCAL dude View Post
-I don't want scabs getting a dollar more retro pay than any hard working REAL pilot!!
Well..........................?
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