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Originally Posted by Shrek
(Post 1284185)
Guess we will have to see the breakdown of Yes vs. No voters on each property when it comes to that.
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Originally Posted by Rocketiii
(Post 1284113)
Motch, screw these guys. It's not worth the effort. Take some time off. You can't argue with brain surgeons. Like the other thread saying they won't cave on an $8 raise when for many of them it's around $40 based on leaked rates. Or the thread talking about all the military guys they hired. We just have scabs. They dont (oh wait, they do). Our guys pick up vjm. Probably just a couple of percent. I fly with the united guys all the time. It's a mix. Some good. Some plain awful. I'd say drop all this us vs them stuff. But every time I run into one of them, I get some more. Ran into a couple drunk UAL guys who started their crap. "why are we using all of CALs procedures" they slurred. Then I mentioned one after another from ual and callouts etc. no response. This scab stereotype etc is getting old. I have a dozen jumpseat stories on lual flights and the guys were about 90% yes. Sad. Good luck guys working this out on the forums. Big talkers on the Internet. Not so much face to face as I found out. Take care
Tell me captain, when you encounter these living devils, do you use your CRM skills to set the appropriate tone, contact Professional Standards, contact your CP, or just come on an anonymous message board to whine? |
Originally Posted by skippy
(Post 1284250)
Motch, u know the bottom third here will vote no too
So, were up to 1/3 total no, we just need another 16.8% and voila ...nope! |
Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1284202)
We'll know how we all voted sometime next year (!). But one thing that does worry me is that if it's a ****ty deal for the CAL Side but still goes out to the membership for a Vote- I expect the CAL Scabs and a good percentage of my Senior (55yr+) guys to vote yes. Also worried that some of the middle guys will vote yes due to hopes of upgrades.
I expect almost all of the bottom 3rd at CAL to Vote NO. The question then becomes- what is the feeling of the UAL Pilots? That is still to be seen. From what I've heard, your guys are pretty much leaning NO based on the leaked PayRates and the $400 mil Retro/Signing Bonus. Hope that is true. The wild card will be the Election and what happens with the Distribution Arbitration. Motch PS> One of the scariest thing is this- all the Active UAL Pilots are on 12th yr pay. Looking at the "leaked" payrates, you see a higher % of increase for UAL 12th yr pay vs. any/most CAL % of increase. While I understand that the UAL group has worked under worse pay than the CAL Pilots, the CAL Pilots have worked under worse conditions that the UAL Pilots. So, basically we've both been screwed.. just in different positions! |
next seven years 25% of the list retires, basically their last contact. They will want to get what they can get as early as possible before they go, those are all yes votes. From there all they need is one in three to vote yes for it to pass. Do the demographic math and you will get your answer on the vote.
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Originally Posted by beeker
(Post 1284412)
next seven years 25% of the list retires, basically their last contact. They will want to get what they can get as early as possible before they go, those are all yes votes. From there all they need is one in three to vote yes for it to pass. Do the demographic math and you will get your answer on the vote.
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Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1284202)
PS> One of the scariest thing is this- all the Active UAL Pilots are on 12th yr pay. Looking at the "leaked" payrates, you see a higher % of increase for UAL 12th yr pay vs. any/most CAL % of increase. While I understand that the UAL group has worked under worse pay than the CAL Pilots, the CAL Pilots have worked under worse conditions that the UAL Pilots. So, basically we've both been screwed.. just in different positions! Motch! Your PS suggests that the MECs have been successful in considerably adjusting our expectations because that's exactly what that comparison seeks to accomplish. Let's take our pilot suits off for a second and open our minds for once. I have no interest in how much of a % raise either pilot group receives as compared to the other. Neither of our current contracts nor for that matter, Delta's, represent "industry" leading in value to US pilots, which is where any comparison and my "yes" or "no" vote lies. To give you some perspective, those leaked JCBA numbers will only equal Delta's 2015 rates, in 2017. That's how far behind JCBA leaked rates are, and I can't imagine it will contain a tighter scope section, more sizable retirement %, superior work rules, and an appreciable penality remunerator, to close the gap. So in that sense it's already a non starter, DQ at the blocks. JP is already selling this as the best alternative but I'm not supprise. JH will await the outcome of the national election before he plays his hand(November 5th delay comes to mind). Either way, I won't be dupped especially with stupid comparisons like JCBA rates vs L-UAL / L-CAL rates. |
Originally Posted by ualratt
(Post 1284843)
Either way, I won't be dupped especially with stupid comparisons like JCBA rates vs L-UAL / L-CAL rates.
Case in point would be the last round of pay cuts we took at UAL during bankruptcy. You know, the 11% that was absolutely necessary to obtain exit financing. The one that was taken after the 30-38% round. Just to recoup that 11% we need a 27% raise. After the economic devastation we have endured over the past ten years, are we as a group content with only regaining an 11% cut? Is anyone happy looking at RJ's parked at gates due to the scope we lost? How many furloughs did that create? How long have we sat in our current seat? How much damage can an extremely large fleet of 70-76(90 seat frames) do to our future careers? Keep in mind that once the planes are flying in the system, it's hard to get rid of them. Contract restrictions on their use however, are a mere stroke of a pen. Finally, what have we lost since the amendable date of our contracts? Every time we turn a wheel without a contract, do we talk in terms of lump sum or signing bonus, or do we watch every hour pass and say I am worth $X not $Y. What have you lost between X and Y? Many will try to diminish expectations on gains while forgetting what we have lost. I for one, have lost my dignity. |
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1284853)
Another way of looking at the situation is accounting for what we have lost. If we only consider DAL as the standard bearer, it diminishes what was taken from us and the goals we strive for.
Case in point would be the last round of pay cuts we took at UAL during bankruptcy. You know, the 11% that was absolutely necessary to obtain exit financing. The one that was taken after the 30-38% round. Just to recoup that 11% we need a 27% raise. After the economic devastation we have endured over the past ten years, are we as a group content with only regaining an 11% cut? Is anyone happy looking at RJ's parked at gates due to the scope we lost? How many furloughs did that create? How long have we sat in our current seat? How much damage can an extremely large fleet of 70-76(90 seat frames) do to our future careers? Keep in mind that once the planes are flying in the system, it's hard to get rid of them. Contract restrictions on their use however, are a mere stroke of a pen. Finally, what have we lost since the amendable date of our contracts? Every time we turn a wheel without a contract, do we talk in terms of lump sum or signing bonus, or do we watch every hour pass and say I am worth $X not $Y. What have you lost between X and Y? Many will try to diminish expectations on gains while forgetting what we have lost. I for one, have lost my dignity. |
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1284853)
Many will try to diminish expectations on gains while forgetting what we have lost. I for one, have lost my dignity. |
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