The Hard Sell Begins
11-04-2012, 04:22 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
The Hard Sell Begins
Subject: Re: CAL-MEC
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Last edited by APC225; 11-04-2012 at 05:07 AM.
11-04-2012, 04:48 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
I understand his main point of getting this out to us to let us decide, "It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision" but many of his other statements sound eerily like the C'02 roadshows of "doom and disaster unless...."
Ninety percent? Are we children of a lesser god? Why isn't it 100% or 105%? If the contract is worth a billion in the first year and 600 million thereafter as he says then to take 90% is to hand this company a check, at the very outset of this contract, of 340 million, nearly equal to the signing lump sum (which is probably far below 50% of full retro). More funding our future on the backs of the pilots.
Ninety percent? Are we children of a lesser god? Why isn't it 100% or 105%? If the contract is worth a billion in the first year and 600 million thereafter as he says then to take 90% is to hand this company a check, at the very outset of this contract, of 340 million, nearly equal to the signing lump sum (which is probably far below 50% of full retro). More funding our future on the backs of the pilots.
Last edited by APC225; 11-04-2012 at 05:01 AM.
11-04-2012, 05:31 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Retired
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by APC225
Subject: Re: CAL-MEC
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Smisek needs a deal bad. If ALPA 'sells' us a crappy deal, they'll sign their own death warrant, they'll be off the property before the next contract.
Let's do it right - and not settle!
11-04-2012, 05:45 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
Originally Posted by APC225
Subject: Re: CAL-MEC
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Do we prefer a future like US Air/America West or Delta? The shiny new airplanes are really tempting, but all those 767-200's 757's and 737-500 and -300's will be headed to the desert. Expansion can quickly evaporate. Look up whipsawing if you want to know the rest of the plan. Smisek knows that his best hope to run on the LCC (low cost carrier and USAir's stock ID) model is to prolong this fight.
Negotiating is fine, but forcing 12,000 Pilots to walk away from a deal worth A BILLION DOLLARS to the Pilots OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS and $600 MILLION A YEAR after that could be the biggest blunder in pilot union history. If the pilots think it's a bad deal and vote it down, so be it. It is the voice of the pilot group that should make the decision.
Failure to get a contract could decimate United Continental Holdings and its Pilots in short time. Look at the meltdowns at American and USAir - everybody loses. The winners? Delta and management bonuses at UCH.
I hope those who are proud of their cleverness in trying to get a few extra million and other shiny trinkets don't overplay their hand. An attorney once told me that if you get 90% of what you want, take it...but if you get 75% take that too - and tell everybody you got 90%. From what's been leaked I think we got 90% and I'm not just saying that.
This agreement needs to be sent to the pilots. NOW!
Sorry, but I'm not familiar with who sent this out. Was it some sort of official MEC release, or just some average line pilot giving his opinion somewhere?
11-04-2012, 05:53 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
Sorry, but I'm not familiar with who sent this out. Was it some sort of official MEC release, or just some average line pilot giving his opinion somewhere?
11-04-2012, 06:13 AM
#10
SLI best wishes!
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: B767 Capt
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by gettinbumped
Sorry, but I'm not familiar with who sent this out. Was it some sort of official MEC release, or just some average line pilot giving his opinion somewhere?
Maybe APC should have been more clear on the initial post as to not start any additional wild rumors.
Speaking of wild rumors, anyone else hear that all is not going well in PHX.
Some reps had to leave due to family emergencies, understandable, family first in my book always. Others however left in protest of no final TA to evaluate during ground school etc.
My question was, if there is no final product to vote on, why hold all these folks hostage in PHX for two weeks, Specially those whom might have issues on the east coast in the wake of hurricane Sandy.
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