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Old 03-18-2012, 11:54 PM   #1  
Line Holder
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Default Pierce will sell out junior pilots

Opinion? Yes, but based on facts. The facts clearly indicate that Jay Pierce has done nothing constructive for our pilots. Our contract remains open. He has helped to write and enforce anti-seniority policies. He has angered the UAL MEC. He continues to make backroom deals with management.

CAL (Now UAL) management is waging an all out assault on our seniority based system. The backbone of this evil program is called the Preferential Bid System (PBS). CA Dave Owens helped originate and develop PBS. Mr. Owens is now negotiating your contract, again making deals with management. Jay Pierce helped to write our current concessionary contract. The PBS undermines our seniority system. By de-fault, our concessionary contract accommodates the PBS.

The bulk of UAL flying comes from the B737. B737 pairings are becoming more and more generic meaning that despite your seniority, your trips and days off will be basically the same. CAL contract guarantee's only 12 days off for all pilots regardless of seniority. There is nothing keeping management from pushing all pilots into maximum productivity. I.E., minimum days off.

Training is conducted on days off. Not only are your hard days off taken away but you are expected to do a myriad of job related things on your days off. I.E, CBT, flight physicals, manual updates, etc. MV / LOE has now been extended to three days further cutting into your days off. What's the point of bidding days off and having seniority if the company undermines your seniority at every turn?

Line Holder pilots have little to no binding protections. At any time, a line holder can be reassigned a trip and or forced to stand RA days. Because of system constraints, the pilot assigned RA days will be called first for any trip that pops up in open time. What this means is that a senior pilot can bid a choice trip and have it taken away, that trip assigned to a junior pilot and the senior pilot being assigned a rotten trip.

Management is hiring inexperienced relative new hire pilots into almost every management position. I.E., Training Department, CPO, etc. We have pilots with 20+ years of service, some holding a master's degree, former military test pilots, hundreds of hours of sick leave on the books, etc. being turned down working in the Training Department and pilots with as little as one year service walking into B757 and B777 IP positions. We all know that these things have little to nothing to do with experience and everything to do with control and pay. The junior pilot thinks that he is pulling a fast one taking a CPO job or Training Dept job but doesn't care that he is most probably working the same job for half the price. In the old days, our union labled a pilot who undermine the rest of us a "scab."

During annual MV / LOE, captains are being forced to check out in the right seat. This is not a stop gap measure helping the company when they are short of pilots because management NEVER admits being short pilots. The company is slowly working in the policy of cross utilization of crew members for normal operations. Soon, a type rated new hire will be flying the left seat out of seniority because of "operational necessity" by the company. There is little preventing them from doing these things. In fact, several foreign air carriers routinely do these things. Seniority is just a guide and not binding. If Jay Pierce and his kow towing thugs don't object to these things, then by law it is called a "tacit approval." Meaning, the longer the infraction goes without objection, then it becomes normal operations. I.E., if our pilots began operating by the book we could cripple the airline. Because we do not normally operate "right by the book," it is not "normal" operations and we could be accused of "wild cat job action" (I.E., illegal job action).

At every opportunity, management is undermining our seniority and there has been little to no objection from CA Jay Pierce. When Pierce does want something, he does not use our MEC or joint discussions with UAL. He goes behind our back making inside deals with management. This is not only wrong but undermines our seniority and relations with UAL pilots.

More than once management has thanked Jay Pierce for his help. Management does not thank union leaders for helping labor.

Jay Pierce is angering UAL MEC to the point where they are distrustful and resenting our pilots. This is not going to help us during the seniority integration process.

Junior pilots beware. Some of you are gloating about policies undermining our senior pilots. Before you know it, those senior pilots will be gone and it will be YOU who are going to be undermined by the same policies that you support today.

CAL ALPA has a long history of corruption, self servitude, and inept union officials. This is not opinion. This is documented fact. There have been numerous recalls for flight pay loss abuse. Flight pay loss abuse really means that a union person was stealing money from the rest of us. Two of our last three Negotiating Committee leaders are now employed by management. We have several union leaders who now work in the CPO. Today, those former union leaders zealously perform their management jobs.

None of these corrupt pilots have been punished. In fact, Jay Pierce has more than once given lavish praise to those who should have been expelled from our union and or forced to pay back money they took from the rest of us. The only time Pierce speaks out is to attack and berate any pilot who dare oppose him.

About one year ago, CA Jay Pierce (Former CALEX management) pretty much demanded a high paying ALPA EVP position. He was turned down by an overwhelming vote. Most pilots do not trust or like Mr. Pierce. Those who do support him, do not support line pilots.

CA Pierce has lost all support from UAL MEC and their pilots. He is mostly distrusted and is widely despised by their pilots. They do not understand why we allow him to represent us. They assume that because we support him we too are anti-seniority and are anti-UAL pilot labor policies. This is going to create many problems especially with seniority integration. Again, the junior former CAL pilot should beware. The seniority integration process is contentious enough without bringing in distrust and ill feelings. Junior pilots beware that smart UAL pilots have "No Furlough" protection. You have no such long lasting protections and Jay Pierce is doing nothing for you. In fact, if there are pilot furloughs, those who support Pierce will be looking for a job while Pierce soaks up full flight pay loss, has a lavish expense account, travels on PSO passes, etc.

Mature, responsible, honorable pilots should immediately remove CA Jay Pierce from office. Not doing so will create much damage to the career of thousands of pilots.

This is not a complex situation. Doing the right thing is simple. Is protecting and coddling former CALEX manager and pilot hater, Jay Pierce, worth your career? Jay Pierce's biggest enemy is the cockpit of a modern day jetliner. He will say and do anything to avoid flying airplanes including selling out your career. Then what are you waiting for? You must object to your respective LEC representatives demanding immediatey action. The best way you can punish Jay Pierce is by immediately removing him from office and forcing him to fly the line.

If you do nothing, then do not complain. There is an ill-logic known as "Decision by Indecision." By doing nothing you are allowing the course of events to dictate an outcome. If you use common sense, it is clear that by doing nothing you will allow either UAL pilots and or management to control your destiny. Jay Pierce and the MEC who support him are not looking out for your interest. They are mostly junior pilots who are hanging on to a good deal for as long as possible. Soon, reality will dictate the outcome. The question you have to ask yourself is . . . "Are you feeling lucky?"

Last edited by TruthHurts; 03-19-2012 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:46 AM   #2  
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+1

This needed to be said
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:13 AM   #3  
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Ah, I see Vinsanity has returned to the message board along with his sidekick Rinsane.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:17 AM   #4  
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Originally Posted by Blockoutblockin View Post
Ah, I see Vinsanity has returned to the message board along with his sidekick Rinsane.
Apparently, this person is intellectually vacant and inable intelligent response.

Proof of truth? Read CAL pilot contract. Speak to a CAL pilot. Their current pay and work rules are worse under Jay Pierce than they were under the infamous Frank Lorenzo. Mr. Pierce helped to form their current contract. Unbelievably, Pierce, Stivala, Owens and a handful of others made a contract that undermines the Lorenzo model. Putting Pierce in charge of a union is like electing Frank Lorenzo to union office. ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS JAY PIERCE IS ANTI-LABOR / ANTI-SENIORITY. It's that simple. Even an intellectually vacant Pierce @$$ kisser can understand these things.
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:27 AM   #5  
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Originally Posted by TruthHurts View Post
CA Dave Owens helped originate and develop PBS. Mr. Owens is now negotiating your contract, again making deals with management. Jay Pierce helped to write our current concessionary contract.
By that definition, ANYONE NEGOTIATING OUR CONTRACT for the pilot group is "making deals" with management. It's the nature of the beast. It's called give and take. Hopefully we take more than we give. But the pilot group is not going to get our dream opener contract with no fight from management and without giving up some of our wishes. American tried that and where did that get them over the past 5-6 years?? (BTW, I am no fan of our PBS at all and have made my displeasure known quite often.)

Yes, we may have a concessionary contract, as almost every airline does save SWA and yes, our work rules definitely create a vacuum. But the one thing that wasn't sold out was scope. Without that you and many other pilots here would be a lot worse off than we are now. Need proof? Ask a United pilot how scope has affected them.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:24 AM   #6  
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ah, i see vinsanity has returned to the message board along with his sidekick rinsane.
exactly...
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:07 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Opinion? Yes, but based on facts. The facts clearly indicate that Jay Pierce has done nothing constructive for our pilots. Our contract remains open. He has helped to write and enforce anti-seniority policies. He has angered the UAL MEC. He continues to make backroom deals with management.

CAL (Now UAL) management is waging an all out assault on our seniority based system. The backbone of this evil program is called the Preferential Bid System (PBS). CA Dave Owens helped originate and develop PBS. Mr. Owens is now negotiating your contract, again making deals with management. Jay Pierce helped to write our current concessionary contract. The PBS undermines our seniority system. By de-fault, our concessionary contract accommodates the PBS.

The bulk of UAL flying comes from the B737. B737 pairings are becoming more and more generic meaning that despite your seniority, your trips and days off will be basically the same. CAL contract guarantee's only 12 days off for all pilots regardless of seniority. There is nothing keeping management from pushing all pilots into maximum productivity. I.E., minimum days off.

Training is conducted on days off. Not only are your hard days off taken away but you are expected to do a myriad of job related things on your days off. I.E, CBT, flight physicals, manual updates, etc. MV / LOE has now been extended to three days further cutting into your days off. What's the point of bidding days off and having seniority if the company undermines your seniority at every turn?

Line Holder pilots have little to no binding protections. At any time, a line holder can be reassigned a trip and or forced to stand RA days. Because of system constraints, the pilot assigned RA days will be called first for any trip that pops up in open time. What this means is that a senior pilot can bid a choice trip and have it taken away, that trip assigned to a junior pilot and the senior pilot being assigned a rotten trip.

Management is hiring inexperienced relative new hire pilots into almost every management position. I.E., Training Department, CPO, etc. We have pilots with 20+ years of service, some holding a master's degree, former military test pilots, hundreds of hours of sick leave on the books, etc. being turned down working in the Training Department and pilots with as little as one year service walking into B757 and B777 IP positions. We all know that these things have little to nothing to do with experience and everything to do with control and pay. The junior pilot thinks that he is pulling a fast one taking a CPO job or Training Dept job but doesn't care that he is most probably working the same job for half the price. In the old days, our union labled a pilot who undermine the rest of us a "scab."

During annual MV / LOE, captains are being forced to check out in the right seat. This is not a stop gap measure helping the company when they are short of pilots because management NEVER admits being short pilots. The company is slowly working in the policy of cross utilization of crew members for normal operations. Soon, a type rated new hire will be flying the left seat out of seniority because of "operational necessity" by the company. There is little preventing them from doing these things. In fact, several foreign air carriers routinely do these things. Seniority is just a guide and not binding. If Jay Pierce and his kow towing thugs don't object to these things, then by law it is called a "tacit approval." Meaning, the longer the infraction goes without objection, then it becomes normal operations. I.E., if our pilots began operating by the book we could cripple the airline. Because we do not normally operate "right by the book," it is not "normal" operations and we could be accused of "wild cat job action" (I.E., illegal job action).

At every opportunity, management is undermining our seniority and there has been little to no objection from CA Jay Pierce. When Pierce does want something, he does not use our MEC or joint discussions with UAL. He goes behind our back making inside deals with management. This is not only wrong but undermines our seniority and relations with UAL pilots.

More than once management has thanked Jay Pierce for his help. Management does not thank union leaders for helping labor.

Jay Pierce is angering UAL MEC to the point where they are distrustful and resenting our pilots. This is not going to help us during the seniority integration process.

Junior pilots beware. Some of you are gloating about policies undermining our senior pilots. Before you know it, those senior pilots will be gone and it will be YOU who are going to be undermined by the same policies that you support today.

CAL ALPA has a long history of corruption, self servitude, and inept union officials. This is not opinion. This is documented fact. There have been numerous recalls for flight pay loss abuse. Flight pay loss abuse really means that a union person was stealing money from the rest of us. Two of our last three Negotiating Committee leaders are now employed by management. We have several union leaders who now work in the CPO. Today, those former union leaders zealously perform their management jobs.

None of these corrupt pilots have been punished. In fact, Jay Pierce has more than once given lavish praise to those who should have been expelled from our union and or forced to pay back money they took from the rest of us. The only time Pierce speaks out is to attack and berate any pilot who dare oppose him.

About one year ago, CA Jay Pierce (Former CALEX management) pretty much demanded a high paying ALPA EVP position. He was turned down by an overwhelming vote. Most pilots do not trust or like Mr. Pierce. Those who do support him, do not support line pilots.

CA Pierce has lost all support from UAL MEC and their pilots. He is mostly distrusted and is widely despised by their pilots. They do not understand why we allow him to represent us. They assume that because we support him we too are anti-seniority and are anti-UAL pilot labor policies. This is going to create many problems especially with seniority integration. Again, the junior former CAL pilot should beware. The seniority integration process is contentious enough without bringing in distrust and ill feelings. Junior pilots beware that smart UAL pilots have "No Furlough" protection. You have no such long lasting protections and Jay Pierce is doing nothing for you. In fact, if there are pilot furloughs, those who support Pierce will be looking for a job while Pierce soaks up full flight pay loss, has a lavish expense account, travels on PSO passes, etc.

Mature, responsible, honorable pilots should immediately remove CA Jay Pierce from office. Not doing so will create much damage to the career of thousands of pilots.

This is not a complex situation. Doing the right thing is simple. Is protecting and coddling former CALEX manager and pilot hater, Jay Pierce, worth your career? Jay Pierce's biggest enemy is the cockpit of a modern day jetliner. He will say and do anything to avoid flying airplanes including selling out your career. Then what are you waiting for? You must object to your respective LEC representatives demanding immediatey action. The best way you can punish Jay Pierce is by immediately removing him from office and forcing him to fly the line.

If you do nothing, then do not complain. There is an ill-logic known as "Decision by Indecision." By doing nothing you are allowing the course of events to dictate an outcome. If you use common sense, it is clear that by doing nothing you will allow either UAL pilots and or management to control your destiny. Jay Pierce and the MEC who support him are not looking out for your interest. They are mostly junior pilots who are hanging on to a good deal for as long as possible. Soon, reality will dictate the outcome. The question you have to ask yourself is . . . "Are you feeling lucky?"
If you accidentally skip a dose of your medication, take the next dose as soon as you can, then try to reestablish your regular medication schedule.

T/W
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:52 AM   #8  
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Originally Posted by throttleweenie View Post
If you accidentally skip a dose of your medication, take the next dose as soon as you can, then try to reestablish your regular medication schedule.

T/W
T/W,

Excellent advice. "Truth" I would assume is a junior CAL guy/gal and must be worried about ISL. Doesn't understand that UAL's MEC has made past moves that sacrificed the junior in end game, and so on.

It is what it is. He/she is worried about a process that will go to arbitration. Both sides will make their stand.....an arbitration board will decide. JP will have nothing to do with the final answer.

Frats,
Lee
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:13 PM   #9  
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T/W,

Excellent advice. "Truth" I would assume is a junior CAL guy/gal and must be worried about ISL. Doesn't understand that UAL's MEC has made past moves that sacrificed the junior in end game, and so on.

It is what it is. He/she is worried about a process that will go to arbitration. Both sides will make their stand.....an arbitration board will decide. JP will have nothing to do with the final answer.

Frats,
Lee
Would you explain how the UAL MEC sacrificed the junior pilots? Do you really think they planned to do harm to the junior pilots or was the harm a byproduct of 9/11, bankruptcy and the Tilton Plan.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:44 PM   #10  
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United ALPA has screwed the junior pilots many times over the last decade. A few examples are not defending the no -furlough provisions as Delta did and won, not allowing furloughees to participate in the bond distribution if they couldn't get on the property by an arbitrary date they selected, signing the RJ side letter etc
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