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Jay pierce; Undermines Pilot Profession

Old 03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
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Default Jay pierce; Undermines Pilot Profession

CAL Union leader, CA Jay Pierce has a long history of helping to undermine the airline pilot profession.

Mr. Pierce is former CALEX management having directly worked for the pilot hating CEO Jonathan Ornstein. Mr. Ornsteing himself a protege of Mr. David Bonderman and Mr. Frank Lorenzo.

A major reason the infamous Continental Airlines Strike took place is because Frank Lorenzo transferred DC9's from Continental Airlines to his new alter ego airline, New York Air. CAL considered this to be a violation of their SCOPE.

In essence, CALEX is an "alter ego" airline flying almost every route CAL pilots used to fly. The difference being their pilots are entry level, some with little to no experience and are paid less than half of CAL pilots. For years, ALPA considered pilots flying for these alter ego airlines to be "scabs." ALPA could not stop these airline from forming so they dropped their "scab" status (Forgiving pilots from NYA & others) and decided to organize the new "Regional Airlines." Regardless, these pilots are paid substantially less for flying mostly the same routes as their parent airline. Degradation of the airline pilot profession started with these things.

In those early days, Jay Pierce played an important role making anti-pilot policy for CALEX. He was an ardent pilot hater and known to go out of his way to discipline and humiliate a pilot. He followed closely in the steps of Frank Lorenzo, Jordan Lewis and other infamous anti-labor leaders.

Few realize that CAL pilots were actually compensated better and far more justly 35 years ago, than they are today. Few remember that not too long ago, UAL pilots were earning about $400,000 per year with all benefits paid and a lucrative multi-million dollar retirement fund. Today, all of those things are gone. The airline pilot profession has been in a steady free fall for many years now and it is getting worse not better. People like Jay Pierce are making sure that pilots stay under the thumb of airline management.

Only at Continental Airlines could anti-pilot management, Jay Pierce transform to leader of CAL ALPA. This has not been the first time something like this has happened at CAL. After the Strike, the founder of their new union (IACP) was a super scab, CA Rene Minarjes. Within a short time, Mr. Minarjes was thrown out of office. He later went on to file a decertification law suit against ALPA. Former NYA CA Bill Borelli (Himself a beneficiary of Lorenzo super seniority) became their first union president to remain in office for any length of time. Mr. Borelli was a union legend in his own mind. He oversaw several controversial matters and was eventually thrown out of office by his one time friend and colleague, NYA CA Pat Burke (Mr. Borelli now works for management). CA Pat Burke brought ALPA back to CAL. During this time period, NWA was in the process of transfering all of CAL's international routes and set in motion steps to liquidate CAL. Then CAL Chief Legal Counsel, Mr. Jeff Smisek joined the Dept of Justice suing NWA. In behalf of CAL ALPA, CA Burke never filed an amicus siding with the Dept of Justice and CAL. By law, not filing amicus meant CAL ALPA had no objection to NWA actions of liquidating CAL. Because of Burke's negligence or stupidity, this is why he was probably removed from office. Earlier, CA Borelli was warned to file an objection with the Dept of Transportation objecting to the international route transfer between CAL & NWA. AAL & DAL had filed such suit while Borelli sat by watching his own airline being undermined. CA Borelli eventually filed objection in behalf of the IACP with DOT. It was only due to Mr. Jeff Smisek's expert actions was Continental Airlines saved from liquidation. This is why Mr. Smisek was promoted to President of Continental Airlines. The point being is that union leader negligence, ineptitude and probable self serving almost helped NWA liquidate CAL.

Eventually another super scab was elected to lead CAL ALPA and that was CA Jay Panarello. CA Panarello was lobbying with management to be the replacement for the controversial co-Vice President of Operations, CA Debbie McCoy. She too a Lorenzo scab with a dubious background. CA Panarello allowed the MEC do whatever they want in order to remain in power. When it was clear he was not going to get CA Mc Coy's job, he resigned (He was probably going to be recalled). During this time frame a an outspoken anti-ALPA advocate and super scab, CA Jimmy Tripson was elected LEC 171 CA Representative. Overnight CA Tripson morphed into pro-ALPA (Jay Pierce has the same affliction). CA Tripson mission was to keep CALEX pilots from joining CAL seniority list. Once he completed his mission, Tripson resigned and went back to being anti-ALPA. Meanwhile, CA Panarello was most probably going to be recalled along with LEC 171 representatives Bruce Stone, Bob Shoemaker and A.J. Bertulli (Resigned but would have been recalled) all for "Flight Pay Loss Abuse." During this time, the chief negotiator for CAL ALPA, CA Rick Muir, tried to get a management job and was turned down. Our union re-hires him back into his old job claiming they could not do without his expertise (CA Muir now works for management). CA Tom Stivala replaced CA Muir and it was he along with Jay Pierce, Dave Owens and others who helped to create the most horrid debilitating anti-pilot/anti-seniority contract in U.S. airline pilot history. CA Stivala now works for management and Dave Owens has been promoted twice from head of PBS to head of the Negotiating Committee. Replacing CA Panarello was CA Dave Ernest. CA Ernest has all of the honorable qualifications to be a top leader. He's original CAL/returning Striker, former USAF, a DDS, and has worked numerous union jobs. CA Ernest instead elected to take the low road. After all, everyone else has been self serving. CA Ernest has a bad back. As soon as he was elected CAL ALPA President, he took the opportunity to have back surgery and convalesced on full flight pay loss for about a year then resigned his post without reason. Former NYA CA Norm Gustitus took LEC 171 CA position formally held by recalled scab CA Bruce Stone. CA Gustitus, too is a beneficiary of Lorenzo super seniority and has never flown a day of reserve in his career. He spent minimum time as a first officer. CA Gustitus then bid reserve B756 CA knowing that because of his union job, he would not have to stand reserve duty. He did so to receive a big bump in pay. CA Gustitus, was once one of CAL's most hard line union advocates and he now works for management. CA Gustitus once known for being a staunch pilot advocate has a reputation of hammering pilots. His zealous behavior has become so notorious that his supervisors have finally reigned him in.

CAL's PBS undermines seniority at every opportunity. By default, their pilot contract has to accommodate the PBS (See the numerous side letters union officials signed over to the company). CAL work rules allow line holder pilots to be reassigned at any time and to stand reserve duty. The trips these senior line holder pilots bid for are sometimes taken away and reassinged to junior pilots. Because the line holder is pay protected, they are often reassigned horrible trips. A CAL reserve pilot is a system reserve pilot that is often dead headed anywhere in the country to cover trips at any base. Days off are routinely rolled and or taken away. CAL Reserve Pilots serve as an integral factor flying maximum hours every month keeping staffing levels down to ridiculous levels. In other words, this is a de-facto "B" scale wage keeping pilot earnings down across the board. CAL is often short pilots because they need their reserve pilots to fly a lions share of normal flying. Training is conducted on pilot's days off. Pilots have their days off taken away for training are paid minimum pay. PBS routinely denies trips from senior pilots. Duty days are long often more than twice exceeding pay hours. Lately, captain's taking their annual MV / LOE are being forced to check out in the right seat. The union is onboard and will not oppose management. Therefore, this has become a required event. Captain's are expected to be cross utilized flying as F/O's on the line. The foolhardy think this is only a stop gap measure helping when short of pilots. CAL has never admited being short of pilots. Once these things start, they become policy. It won't be long before UAL / CAL hires substantially fewer pilots because all can be cross utilized at any time. How many times do I have to say this but Jay Pierce has not made one word of objection. All of these things undermine pilot seniority. CA Jay Pierce has played an integral role helping to write CAL's contract and setting anti-seniority / anti-labor policy. CA Pierce seldom complains about these things. He has had ample opportunity to complain to the press, outside organizations, etc. and does not do so. Only when pressed will he barely say anything against management. He is careful not to offend. This is Jay Pierce's area of expertise.

To date, CA Pierce has gone out of his way to antagonize and anger UAL pilots. This is not what union leaders are suppose to do especially when UAL will be controlling the SSL process. CA Pierce recently circumvented the JNC going behind the back of organized labor to weasel a profit sharing deal for his pilots. The issue is not "profit sharing" but how Mr. Pierce went about getting profit sharing that is being questioned. Underpaid CAL pilots may not care how Mr. Pierce got them profit sharing but those few dollars they got may prove to be detrimental in the long run. We still don't know what back room deal Pierce made with management and we do know he has angered UAL pilots. We also know that management has repeatedly thanked Mr. Pierce for helping them. Management does not thank union bosses for helping labor.

Not too long ago, CA Pierce was involved in a huge union scandal. His union officials were abusing power punishing individual pilots they did not approve of. Union officials were eventually caught some having made physcial threats against our pilots. At any time, Jay Pierce could have stopped the scandal by firing those involved. Instead, Pierce hid behind our ALPA attorney and allowed the course of events to be played out. The situation was so aggregious that it went through Professional Standards, CPO, HR, VP Ops, Legal and onto CEO Mr. Jeff Smisek. Eventually then ALPA President CA John Prater was brought into the loop. A massive investigation took place including three company hearings. Throughout, Pierce remained silent. Only when Article 8 procedings were about to be filed against Pierce and he received intense pressure from several MEC members did Pierce react. In order to protect himself, he agreed to fire several key union officials. Instead of informing our pilots what had happened and firing these abusers in disgrace, Pierce said nothing about the scandal and gave lavish words of praise to those terminated from the union. If not for a few rules of evidence and legal interpretations, some pilots came very close being terminated from CAL.

CA Jay Pierce remains an enigma to many. Why is he here and how is he holding onto power? His background is dubious. He has a long history of being anti-pilot / anti-labor. He is known to self serve. He apparently does not dislike flying but despises an airline pilot's job. He has worked hand in hand with those who framed CAL's current contract which is a set of rules that undermine pilot seniority. Mr. Pierce should have never been elected to lead CAL ALPA. In recent times, because of CAL pilot apathy and rampant corruption, their union has been mostly ineffective. These things have produced an ugly atmosphere allowing Pierce to rise to power. He and those who support him are an insult and disgrace not only to ALPA but organized labor.

If you are an honorable, concientious supporter of organized labor, it is your duty to help with this matter. Mr. Pierce stands to make incredible damage not only to UAL/CAL pilots but the airline profession. He has a history of doing these things. He has been surrounded by top professionals who have been actively underming pilot seniority for years. Mr. Pierce has done absolutely nothing for CAL pilots. His job was to stall pilot negotiations until management is good and ready to talk, and he has done his job expertly. Please file objection to ALPA-N asking for Pierce to be removed from office. If you work locally for UAL / CAL file written objection through your respective LEC. Demand Pierce's immediate removal. I guarantee you, when Mr. Pierce is removed from office he will not fly the line. He will be given either a management job or promoted within the union.

Last edited by TruthHurts; 03-13-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TruthHurts View Post
CA Paul Stivala replaced CA Muir and it was he along with Jay Pierce, Dave Owens and others who helped to create the most horrid debilitating anti-pilot/anti-seniority contract in U.S. airline pilot history. CA Stivala now works for management and Dave Owens has been promoted twice from head of PBS to head of the Negotiating Committee. Replacing CA Panarello was CA Dave Ernest......
Not to quote your whole diatribe in the interest of space & time....

We're talking about the same person aren't we?? If so, his name is Captain TOM Stivala isn't it???

.....and YES, his puts the GOAT in "Goat-boy".
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TruthHurts View Post
CAL Union leader, CA Jay Pierce has a long history of helping to undermine the airline pilot profession.

Mr. Pierce is former CALEX management having directly worked for the pilot hating CEO Jonathan Ornstein. Mr. Ornsteing himself a protege of Mr. David Bonderman and Mr. Frank Lorenzo.

A major reason the infamous Continental Airlines Strike took place is because Frank Lorenzo transferred DC9's from Continental Airlines to his new alter ego airline, New York Air. CAL considered this to be a violation of their SCOPE.

In essence, CALEX is an "alter ego" airline flying almost every route CAL pilots used to fly. The difference being their pilots are entry level, some with little to no experience and are paid less than half of CAL pilots. For years, ALPA considered pilots flying for these alter ego airlines to be "scabs." ALPA could not stop these airline from forming so they dropped their "scab" status (Forgiving pilots from NYA & others) and decided to organize the new "Regional Airlines." Regardless, these pilots are paid substantially less for flying mostly the same routes as their parent airline. Degradation of the airline pilot profession started with these things.

In those early days, Jay Pierce played an important role making anti-pilot policy for CALEX. He was an ardent pilot hater and known to go out of his way to discipline and humiliate a pilot. He followed closely in the steps of Frank Lorenzo, Jordan Lewis and other infamous anti-labor leaders.

Few realize that CAL pilots were actually compensated better and far more justly 35 years ago, than they are today. Few remember that not too long ago, UAL pilots were earning about $400,000 per year with all benefits paid and a lucrative multi-million dollar retirement fund. Today, all of those things are gone. The airline pilot profession has been in a steady free fall for many years now and it is getting worse not better. People like Jay Pierce are making sure that pilots stay under the thumb of airline management.

Only at Continental Airlines could anti-pilot management, Jay Pierce transform to leader of CAL ALPA. This has not been the first time something like this has happened at CAL. After the Strike, the founder of their new union (IACP) was a super scab, CA Rene Minarjes. Within a short time, Mr. Minarjes was thrown out of office. He later went on to file a decertification law suit against ALPA. Former NYA CA Bill Borelli (Himself a beneficiary of Lorenzo super seniority) became their first union president to remain in office for any length of time. Mr. Borelli was a union legend in his own mind. He oversaw several controversial matters and was eventually thrown out of office by his one time friend and colleague, NYA CA Pat Burke (Mr. Borelli now works for management). CA Pat Burke brought ALPA back to CAL. During this time period, NWA was in the process of transfering all of CAL's international routes and set in motion steps to liquidate CAL. Then CAL Chief Legal Counsel, Mr. Jeff Smisek joined the Dept of Justice suing NWA. In behalf of CAL ALPA, CA Burke never filed an amicus siding with the Dept of Justice and CAL. By law, not filing amicus meant CAL ALPA had no objection to NWA actions of liquidating CAL. Because of Burke's negligence or stupidity, this is why he was probably removed from office. Earlier, CA Borelli was warned to file an objection with the Dept of Transportation objecting to the international route transfer between CAL & NWA. AAL & DAL had filed such suit while Borelli sat by watching his own airline being undermined. CA Borelli eventually filed objection in behalf of the IACP with DOT. It was only due to Mr. Jeff Smisek's expert actions was Continental Airlines saved from liquidation. This is why Mr. Smisek was promoted to President of Continental Airlines. The point being is that union leader negligence, ineptitude and probable self serving almost helped NWA liquidate CAL.

Eventually another super scab was elected to lead CAL ALPA and that was CA Jay Panarello. CA Panarello was lobbying with management to be the replacement for the controversial co-Vice President of Operations, CA Debbie McCoy. She too a Lorenzo scab with a dubious background. CA Panarello allowed the MEC do whatever they want in order to remain in power. When it was clear he was not going to get CA Mc Coy's job, he resigned (He was probably going to be recalled). During this time frame a an outspoken anti-ALPA advocate and super scab, CA Jimmy Tripson was elected LEC 171 CA Representative. Overnight CA Tripson morphed into pro-ALPA (Jay Pierce has the same affliction). CA Tripson mission was to keep CALEX pilots from joining CAL seniority list. Once he completed his mission, Tripson resigned and went back to being anti-ALPA. Meanwhile, CA Panarello was most probably going to be recalled along with LEC 171 representatives Bruce Stone, Bob Shoemaker and A.J. Bertulli (Resigned but would have been recalled) all for "Flight Pay Loss Abuse." During this time, the chief negotiator for CAL ALPA, CA Rick Muir, tried to get a management job and was turned down. Our union re-hires him back into his old job claiming they could not do without his expertise (CA Muir now works for management). CA Tom Stivala replaced CA Muir and it was he along with Jay Pierce, Dave Owens and others who helped to create the most horrid debilitating anti-pilot/anti-seniority contract in U.S. airline pilot history. CA Stivala now works for management and Dave Owens has been promoted twice from head of PBS to head of the Negotiating Committee. Replacing CA Panarello was CA Dave Ernest. CA Ernest has all of the honorable qualifications to be a top leader. He's original CAL/returning Striker, former USAF, a DDS, and has worked numerous union jobs. CA Ernest instead elected to take the low road. After all, everyone else has been self serving. CA Ernest has a bad back. As soon as he was elected CAL ALPA President, he took the opportunity to have back surgery and convalesced on full flight pay loss for about a year then resigned his post without reason. Former NYA CA Norm Gustitus took LEC 171 CA position formally held by recalled scab CA Bruce Stone. CA Gustitus, too is a beneficiary of Lorenzo super seniority and has never flown a day of reserve in his career. He spent minimum time as a first officer. CA Gustitus then bid reserve B756 CA knowing that because of his union job, he would not have to stand reserve duty. He did so to receive a big bump in pay. CA Gustitus, was once one of CAL's most hard line union advocates and he now works for management. CA Gustitus once known for being a staunch pilot advocate has a reputation of hammering pilots. His zealous behavior has become so notorious that his supervisors have finally reigned him in.

CAL's PBS undermines seniority at every opportunity. By default, their pilot contract has to accommodate the PBS (See the numerous side letters union officials signed over to the company). CAL work rules allow line holder pilots to be reassigned at any time and to stand reserve duty. The trips these senior line holder pilots bid for are sometimes taken away and reassinged to junior pilots. Because the line holder is pay protected, they are often reassigned horrible trips. A CAL reserve pilot is a system reserve pilot that is often dead headed anywhere in the country to cover trips at any base. Days off are routinely rolled and or taken away. CAL Reserve Pilots serve as an integral factor flying maximum hours every month keeping staffing levels down to ridiculous levels. In other words, this is a de-facto "B" scale wage keeping pilot earnings down across the board. CAL is often short pilots because they need their reserve pilots to fly a lions share of normal flying. Training is conducted on pilot's days off. Pilots have their days off taken away for training are paid minimum pay. PBS routinely denies trips from senior pilots. Duty days are long often more than twice exceeding pay hours. All of these things undermine pilot seniority. CA Jay Pierce has played an integral role helping to write CAL's contract and setting anti-seniority / anti-labor policy. CA Pierce seldom complains about these things. He has had ample opportunity to complain to the press, outside organizations, etc. and does not do so. Only when pressed will he barely say anything against management. He is careful not to offend. This is Jay Pierce's area of expertise.

To date, CA Pierce has gone out of his way to antagonize and anger UAL pilots. This is not what union leaders are suppose to do especially when UAL will be controlling the SSL process. CA Pierce recently circumvented the JNC going behind the back of organized labor to weasel a profit sharing deal for his pilots. The issue is not "profit sharing" but how Mr. Pierce went about getting profit sharing that is being questioned. Underpaid CAL pilots may not care how Mr. Pierce got them profit sharing but those few dollars they got may prove to be detrimental in the long run. We still don't know what back room deal Pierce made with management and we do know he has angered UAL pilots. We also know that management has repeatedly thanked Mr. Pierce for helping them. Management does not thank union bosses for helping labor.

Not too long ago, CA Pierce was involved in a huge union scandal. His union officials were abusing power punishing individual pilots they did not approve of. Union officials were eventually caught some having made physcial threats against our pilots. At any time, Jay Pierce could have stopped the scandal by firing those involved. Instead, Pierce hid behind our ALPA attorney and allowed the course of events to be played out. The situation was so aggregious that it went through Professional Standards, CPO, HR, VP Ops, Legal and onto CEO Mr. Jeff Smisek. Eventually then ALPA President CA John Prater was brought into the loop. A massive investigation took place including three company hearings. Throughout, Pierce remained silent. Only when Article 8 procedings were about to be filed against Pierce and he received intense pressure from several MEC members did Pierce react. In order to protect himself, he agreed to fire several key union officials. Instead of informing our pilots what had happened and firing these abusers in disgrace, Pierce said nothing about the scandal and gave lavish words of praise to those terminated from the union. If not for a few rules of evidence and legal interpretations, some pilots came very close being terminated from CAL.

CA Jay Pierce remains an enigma to many. Why is he here and how is he holding onto power? His background is dubious. He has a long history of being anti-pilot / anti-labor. He is known to self serve. He apparently does not dislike flying but despises an airline pilot's job. He has worked hand in hand with those who framed CAL's current contract which is a set of rules that undermine pilot seniority. Mr. Pierce should have never been elected to lead CAL ALPA. In recent times, because of CAL pilot apathy and rampant corruption, their union has been mostly ineffective. These things have produced an ugly atmosphere allowing Pierce to rise to power. He and those who support him are an insult and disgrace not only to ALPA but organized labor.

If you are an honorable, concientious supporter of organized labor, it is your duty to help with this matter. Mr. Pierce stands to make incredible damage not only to UAL/CAL pilots but the airline profession. He has a history of doing these things. He has been surrounded by top professionals who have been actively underming pilot seniority for years. Mr. Pierce has done absolutely nothing for CAL pilots. His job was to stall pilot negotiations until management is good and ready to talk, and he has done his job expertly. Please file objection to ALPA-N asking for Pierce to be removed from office. If you work locally for UAL / CAL file written objection through your respective LEC. Demand Pierce's immediate removal. I guarantee you, when Mr. Pierce is removed from office he will not fly the line. He will be given either a management job or promoted within the union.

I have to ask, why he been allowed to stay in office? There is no doubt we would have a JCBA if Pierce had his way but it would look very similar to the current CAL pilots contract. He is holding up JCBA because he is working side deals with the company and not allowing our negotiating committee do their job. Short term gains for a few at the expense of the collective group long term. Should a RECALL be in his future?
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:56 PM
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If even half of this is true I'm speechless. The more I read the more I remember Whiteford and the stories of Ferg with fond memories.

In the end, we all have to look into the mirror to place blame. We vote in the LEC reps who elect these thugs.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SpecialTracking View Post
If even half of this is true I'm speechless. The more I read the more I remember Whiteford and the stories of Ferg with fond memories.

In the end, we all have to look into the mirror to place blame. We vote in the LEC reps who elect these thugs.

Father,

And, assuming your currently active, you have to voice your concerns over the current UAL issue regarding LEC access to the company/ALPA back and forth in the negotiating documents.

MEC members have a right to view the proposals. DEMAND it.

Frats,
Lee
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:01 PM
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I heard Jay hates kittens too.

I've talked to Jay one-on-one and I'll trust him before any anonymous internet forum conspiracy theory posters.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottopilot View Post
I heard Jay hates kittens too.

I've talked to Jay one-on-one and I'll trust him before any anonymous internet forum conspiracy theory posters.
I've talked to Tilton one-on-one and he seemed like a great guy too
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:09 PM
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Yet you choose to ignore the boat load of damning evidence against him.

As I posted earlier, how in the hell does a pilot leave a carrier, go to work for J Orenstein as a management puke at MESA, and then come back to CAL and reclaim his seniority number and rise to the MC?? This makes zero sense and would NEVER happen at UAL.

If you can't find the skunks ass with this alone, then there is nothing that can help you.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottopilot View Post
I heard Jay hates kittens too.

I've talked to Jay one-on-one and I'll trust him before any anonymous internet forum conspiracy theory posters.

Lot of people trusted Jim Jones too...
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottopilot View Post
I'll trust him before any anonymous internet forum conspiracy theory posters.
Ottopilot,

Do you know a lot about Pierce? If so could you please point out where TruthHurts is incorrect in his assessment of him?
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