Once United

If it is a smear campaign then give us a blow-for-blow to disprove the claims. All I've seen is a few going after the man and not refuting any of the questions or information he has presented. Why is that?

SaltyDog

By design, I don't have a dog in your fight today, but as a military pilot who got a job at CALEX with a CAL number in 1993, I was called a Scab by a UAL Captain. Maybe it was you? Then Babbit comes in and wants us to go ALPA and supported Ornsteins Pay For Training. He stated so at our "Get to know ALPA". As a military bub, he forever painted ALPA in a negative light.
Having never crossed a line, and starting in 1993, was also turned off by the term Scab thrown around at the same time Babbit is trying to get the commuters into ALPA. Buffoonery at its finest. BTW, I enjoyed you selective use of revisionist history.

CALFO

He might be right about everything he says. Being that I don't know Pierce and can't crawl inside his head to see his motivations, I really can't say. What I can say is that joining a pilot board with the sole intent of anonymously bashing our Union leadership is cowardly and anti-productive. If he/she has some information about Pierce that is so damning, then he/she has a moral responsibility to take that info to the LEC/MEC and hash it out. Throwing darts here does nothing but breed contempt between the two pilot groups.

Flytolive

CALFO,

Are you posting anonymously because I didn't catch your name? And information is bad? Offering uncontested details about the other side of the story regarding a union leader who just broke ranks with the other pilot union with which he was supposedly negotiating against the company should be off limits? What other kind of information would it be productive to self-censure for those with whom you disagree?

CALFO

No I am not posting anonymously. My name actually is CALFO. I like anonymous boards but I don't like the few individuals that use them to push a smear campaign. If this person is legit and has actual evidence to incriminate Pierce that he/she should have the courage to bring it to fellow union members with his name behind it.

As I stated earlier, everything he said may be accurate. I don't know. Aside from Pierce himself, there isn't anyone who knows his true motivations.

What details have emerged from the story? That Pierce worked in management at express? That pierce has some union involvement during contract 02? That's public information.

What bothers me is when some broken facts are distorted to paint a picture of someone. There are some monumental leaps in logic here. The poster has contributed nothing to this board other than his disdain for Pierce.

TruthHurts

You are on the point then missing the point. Let's go over this again. In 1981 NY Air was called an "Alter Ego" Airline. New airlines of that sort were not called "Regional" or "Express" type carriers in those days. There was no such animal. Mr. Frank Lorenzo was one of the first airline executives (If not the first) to use a holding company owning Continental Airlines, NY Air, Chelsea catering, etc. as subsidiaries. Mr. Lorenzo took CAL DC9's went through the holding company (Texas Air), & changed the registration to NYAir. By law, not opinion, those airplanes now belong to NYAir. CAL ALPA / ALPA-N did not grasp this fact and insisted those airplanes belonged to CAL. A horrible illegal strike took place. Not opinion, fact. ALPA has since admitted a wrong/illegal strike. ALPA has forgiven NYAir and no longer officially consider them a "scab" airline. These "official" re-designations / forgiveness did not take place for many years. The reason being is to cope with (Out maneuver unions is more like it) deregulation. Airlines like American, CAL, etc. started up "alter ego" airlines that were now designated as "Regional" or CALEX, American Eagle, etc. ALPA saw the handwriting on the wall. If they called all of these new airlines "alter ego" or scab companies they would be at constant war. Therefore, they decided to join them rather than fight them. I.E., organize as many as possible. But, my friend. The intent of any Express carrier is the same. It flies mostly the same routes as the major air carrier for substantially less cost. I am not calling Express pilots scabs, but for years ALPA designated those doing these things as a "scab." The word does not just apply to those who crossed a picket line. The word "scab" is applied to any pilot who undermines another pilot especially when the flying is at the same air carrier (I.E. CALEX / CAL, etc.). Again, I emphasize, that term in this context DOES NOT OFFICIALLY APPLY TODAY.

But, having said that, I find it ironic that former CALEX pilots have issues with pay and work rules at CAL, yet it is their former company who are pulling down the industry by flying mostly former CAL routes at substantially less cost. This is classic management playing one labor group against another. What in the hell do you expect? One day I'm flying full B737 to PSP and the next day an RJ has taken over the route. As a CAL pilot, how do you expect me to react? My flying has gone away. My routes are being limited, my choices, days off, pay, etc. (I'm just using PSP as an expample. This happened to dozens of former CAL cities). To my knowledge, CAL pilots do not consider or call CALEX pilots scabs. I think CAL pilots blame the source (CAL) rather than the symptom (CALEX). By the way, I have a master's degree and am a former military pilot. I am hardline union and never crossed any picket line in my career. I too have been called a "scab" by UAL pilots. I also don't take their crap.

The Forums Administrator is sore at me for using names. It's ok for his little lackey's to use names, call the rest of us nasty names, etc. but if you are not in lock step with the CALEX gang, they have little use for you. I have been trying to point out to readers that current CAL union leadership is not properly representing our pilots. Current union leadership is in lock step with management undermining our seniority system. I have given much evidence proving this to be true. I have pointed out that CAL ALPA has a long history of corruption and self servitude. These things have not subsided. They are alive and well.

I have no personal agenda against anyone at CAL much least our union. I do not even know or have met our union president (I am not allowed to say his name). I do know the guy is a skunk. That's 45 years of aviation experience speaking to you. I'm at the end of my career. What he does will have minimum effect on me. My words are meant to help our junior pilots. Apparently, instead of helping, I seem to be offending. Which is a parodox. Most pilots that I speak to cannot stand our union leader and want him thrown out. There have been several efforts but to no avail. My point here was to educate and to get you to participate with your union. For that, I am guilty. If you don't support your union and you are anti-seniority / anti-union, then we are back to the "scab" word. What some of you are missing is that the same people helping with anti-labor / anti-seniority policies are RUNNING YOUR UNION. Surely, most of you are not that dense?

EWRflyr

First, I fixed it. Something didn't look right when I typed it. Should have Googled first.

In regards to your first comment, I had some choice things to add on but then opted to just leave the name correction (or not-correction) there.

SYNONYMOUS

Flytolive

CALFO,

Your position is ridiculously hypocritical.

You and others post anonymously but criticize those who disagree with you for posting anonymously. You also criticize pilots who think Pierce is an enormous threat to their interests because you think they should do that privately, but you have yet to criticize those who defend Pierce's actions publicly on this forum. Sorry, but that doesn't pass any standard of reasonableness.

I've got an idea. Debate the issues on the facts and quit whining. As the saying goes, put up or shut up.

CALFO

Couldn't have said it better myself.

TruthHurts

Sir, the title of this thread is "CAL / UAL Merger." Considering the topic, exactly what do you expect to discuss that is not controversial?

You say to present the facts to our union? Your statement proves either naivity or that you are removed from reality. There have been several attempts to throw out CAL union president (I'm not allowed to say his name). When measures are being taken to remove him from office, the MEC quickly votes down the measure, refuses to hear the accusations, or engages in all out attacks on the individual. One man going to an LEC or MEC meeting is not going to cut the mustard. What has to be done is what I am advocating and that is every pilot must object in writing to their respective union representative asking for union leader(s) removal (recall) or a Vote of No Confidence.

My posts were factually outlining the background of several of our union leaders. They have a long history of self serving and hurting organized labor. Any pilot who undermines our seniority system is against organized labor. Seniority is the basic sacred tenet of our existance. I have outlined contractual changes made to undermine the CAL seniority system. These things were done by our current union leaders and the rest have either been rewarded with management jobs or promoted within our union. THAT IS WRONG. Instead of shooting the messenger, you should direct your energy helping our pilot group.

You seem to think that I have some sort of personal agenda against Jay Pierce. I do not even know the man. I have never met him. I do read every bulletin that he puts out. I do follow our union actions very closely. It is because of their words and actions that I am deeply concerned about your future. If you choose to bury your head in the sand then that is your choice. Just don't be *****ing and moaning about how ALPA failed you when you are selling shoes at Walmart.