Scope was never going to back to 50 seats without a full blown strike in my opinion. It sucks 100%, but most mainline pilots gave that up years ago and that genie wasn't going back in the bottle. At least at the following anyway, Alaska, American, Delta, UAL, and USAIR. I don't know how CAL was able to hold the line when so much of their contract stinks, but kudos to them for holding it.

70 seats was, in my opinion a reasonable new line in the sand along with specific language (tail numbers) limiting their numbers. But, clearly the MEC's don't agree with me. After all, its not like they actually polled us or published their emails and phone numbers for input. Or did they?

All I can do now is vote no.

Exactly! Many just can't see past the 76 seat number. Many also say this TA is the Delta contract minus the 717 carrot. Like Sunvox said, there is a carrot, and its the 190. Mainline has to grow with a SNB aircraft before management can maximize their 76 seater options.

Pilot Longevity/Seniority is arguably the most contentious and litigated issue in ALPA. CAL sat down with 2 drop dead issues SLI and Scope. Didn't win scope so you bet your bottom dollar they were gonna win something for SLI. Put the '99s ahead of the '08s and you get 4000 angry pilots. Throw the '99s under the bus and you get 300 voting angry pilots. That's politics and it stinks to High Heaven, but IF this TA is voted down you can bet LOA 25 will get worse NOT better. Plus ALPA policy favors Longevity and NOT D.O.H. Again it stinks but that is the Machiavellian reality.

Ok, you said it. A Typical 99 hire has 8 years longevity, an 08 hire has 4 years longevity. ALPA policy favors what?? I guess its the Machiavellian reality.

Simple:

I demand more.

Simple as that.

600 Million still on the table for offer # 2 - and you want to sign the "pitch"?

Is this your first rodeo?

Riddle Boy the reason many of us refuse to allow new larger airframes is cause we watched AA, DAL, and UAL pilots get bought off from '98-'01. Unsurprisingly when times got tough management knew they could drive RJ's down legacy drivers throat which they did. Which is also why you look wicked cool in that shiny new jet!

Many of us find all ALPA talk of drawing a line at 76 seats to be utter BS. DAL and will UAL airframe size concessions will cause the magic line to be discarded as soon as this industry goes back in the crapper. Management are the numbnuts that overloaded on the 50 seaters. Not my error so not my problem. Btw the 190 rates are significantly below JetBlue.

Do tell? Comparison, please, for all the Kool-aid drinkers.

I'll make it the 2014 numbers for arguments sake even though that assumes JB gets no raise.

Years 1/2/3/4/5
JB FO: 49/64/75/81/85
UAL FO: 66.10/66.10/76.10/77.95/79.80

JB CA : 128/130/132/133/135
UAL CA: 120.64/121.54/122.54/123.53/124.48

Bottom line no real cause to puff our chests out for obtaining a CRJ-900/EMB-190 pay scale.

Definitely not my first "Rodeo", and I wanted to strike in 2003 when UAL-ALPA ran scared from the bankruptcy judge which APA has shown was unnecessary, but today I am most concerned about the UAL/CAL ALPA merger. I think the interests of these two groups are at polar opposites and if this contract goes back to management I believe absolutely 100% that the CAL side will shoot down any future agreement and we will end up with a USAir tragedy of epic proportions and ruin the careers of the entire L-UAL pilot group. Step one will be the retirement of the 757 fleet forcing massive layoffs at L-UAL and step two will be placing all new NB jet orders at L-CAL. L-UAL will become a much smaller widebody only company with no growth and no contract. We need to complete the SLI to align the pilot group interests and THEN fight for a better future. Is this contract "Good". No. Is this contract enough to make it another 5 years before I'm willing to go on strike? Yes.

I believe strongly the fight here is with CAL-ALPA right now and NOT management. They put in pay banding comparing a 767 to a 747 while separating a 757-200 from a 757-300, they put in LOA 25, and they (CAL-ALPA) have said publicly they can live with no contract indefinitely because life's pretty good in their eyes with lots of movement and shiny new planes on their side. I'm closing my eyes and pinching my nose and voting yes to the TA, but I'm gonna expect big things in 2017-2019. Nothing in life good comes fast and sadly the political reality of this bargaining process has seriously handicapped the L-UAL pilot group.

Joe Peck
IADFO

One snapshot look at 5 year Capt. pay with the whole picture:


UAL $124.48 + 16% B-Fund = $144

versus

$135 with no A or B Fund.

plus profit sharing better as well for UAL.