My first revenue flight was in December, if that's what your implying.

 

I never said there was not a significant amount of camaraderie between the two groups. After all, the flight attendants did honor the pilots' picket lines. As for the plea of the FA union leader, that's the official excuse for returning to work before the FAs had signed their own back-to-work agreement, after having pledged not to do so. The other is that ALPA leaders feared that their own unity might be crumbling. Both sides are presented in Flying the Line, Vol.2.

You might also tell about how the UAL pilots settled with Ferris, having once pledged not to leave the 570 behind, with the understanding that their seniority would be decided in court. After several rounds of legal machinations, the 570 finally settled their seniority battle in 1992, some seven years later. That part is not only in George Hopkins' book, but also comes my way from a recently retired (last year) UAL captain who lived through that period and with whom I kept daily contact while he was on the picket line back in '85. He expressed his own reservations about going back to work without a definite agreement to take care of the 570.

 

I'm sure working for CAL was a fine opportunity around then. I hear the camradiere amongst airmen in Meatball Cockpits was exemplary around then. No doubt you draw a lot of your knowledge basis from those innocent times.

 

Now you're getting personal.

No, the situation wasn't perfect back then. But we actually did get along quite well on the flight deck. And, yes, there was a lot to learn from that experience and what followed: the integration of Frontier (the "General Practitioners" as opposed to the "Brain Surgeons"), People Express, and New York Air--a "runaway shop"--none of whose pilots appear on anybody's "list" but one of whom, Pat Burke, brought the CAL pilot back into ALPA.

My whole point in posting on this thread was to point out that things are never as simple as conveniently set out for public consumption. I'm actually hoping that we can settle this contract and seniority integration amicably before I retire, so that work together to make the world's best airline, not the world's largest flying monstrosity.

 

Anxiously awaiting you to show us just how easy it is to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

Delta

-Best pay rates among Legacy airlines
-No involuntary furloughs
-Industry leading scope protections resulting in reduction of outsourced jobs
-Good work rules

CAL/UAL

-Some of the worst pay rates
-Hundreds still on involuntary furlough
-Pathetic work rules.

Looks like that scope you have is doing a lot of good.

 

Good news that you did not make the list, but you certainly were a beneficiary of the failed CAL strike strategy. There were many that choose to avoid that situation until the strikers were put back to work.

It appears that you may have your view of the UAL strike colored by those with whom you worked with back then. You may now have an opportunity to talk to an actual 570, they can explain the situation much better than your associates of that period. The history has been written, the 570 became the senior Captains today, the b-scale was eliminated, Ferris was forced out and the strikers did not have to bring there own food on the airplanes. That's a long ways from management's plan to use the 570 as strike breakers and destroy the union. It was really their strike, they put the opportunity for a job at UAL on the line to fight the union busting two tier. They could have just as easily come to work on May 17th, the strike would have been over quickly, and things would be very different today.

Many claim that ALPA made the 570 and the FA's promises, certainly much was said on the picket lines, but the only promise from the leadership that I remember is that ALPA would bring our members back to work together. We did that, and we supported those that supported us with our financial resources. The strategy worked, those 29 days were only a battle, it was not the war. That continues to this day.

Fireman recollections are correct, no one in that room thought the strike would end that night if it were not for Pat Friend's plea that the best thing that we could do for the FA's would be to get the airplanes flying.

 

Hey Baron,
Sorry no Rick here.
But you keep up the good fight, you seem to be one of the very few who has some perspective in this.
While the debate rages on the details of the TA, in the background, the NMB gains more power.
Someday, you guys and that sorry excuse for a union will have to take on the NMB and their mythic powers or be subservient to them.

 

It's not a union. It's a dysfunctional flying club filled with cliques. There's the management wannabes, the 150% club, the uber politicos, the boot lickers, the bomb tossers, the sycophants, the confused white collar types, the trash men, etc.

When we start acting like a union, we can be called a union. Your "someday" suggestion is a sad joke. We're like the guy on TV who wants to say something to witch in the broom factory, Casper Milquetoast!

The bleating and pleading I've heard the last few trips makes me ill. Some of the guys blasting me for my no vote haven't even read the TA, just the highlights sheet. When I point out some of the hidden concessionary gems they don't believe me. And when I show them the paragraph they just blow me off and change the subject. I remember when I was proud to be a UAL pilot.

 

You forgot these "Geeks, sportos, motorheads, dweebs, dorks, sluts, buttheads..."

Bonus points if you know from what movie this is from.