|
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
(Post 1369555)
Ahhh.....the irony considering the "Nicolau" US Airways SLI where Brucia (as a CAL pilot neutral) dissented and wanted to give status for furloughed US Air pilots, specifically:
"I do not agree with the Board's decision, in the particular circumstances of this case, to integrate only working pilots as of the date announcement, leaving all those on furlough at that date on the bottom of the combined seniority list." Ultimately Nicolau referenced the dissenting opinion and wrote in his decision that he was bound to follow ALPA Merger Policy. So much for unexpected outcomes in arbitration. US Airways SLI Opinion and Award No international route structure at America West and no widebody aircraft. I think our case is quite different. CAL had a solid international route structure to Latin America and Europe. Widebody aircraft and higher narrow body pay then a UAL 767. There were no recall letters sent to the LUAL pilots and none have been sent to date. (involuntary pilot recalls) The maximum active service of an involuntary LUAL pilot is 8 years. Compared to our 2005-2007 hires, not a substantial difference. My opinion! |
Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 1369610)
Regardless, (3) gets more asymmetric every week.
The latest possible "snapshot", considering Merger Policy and the summation of all past award precedents, is the day the merger closed in 2010. |
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
(Post 1369620)
Yup, but not for SLI purposes.
The latest possible "snapshot", considering Merger Policy and the summation of all past award precedents, is the day the merger closed in 2010. |
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
(Post 1369620)
Yup, but not for SLI purposes.
The latest possible "snapshot", considering Merger Policy and the summation of all past award precedents, is the day the merger closed in 2010. 7. Has a seniority list “snapshot” been taken yet and, if so, what is the date? There is no single “snapshot” date used during the Seniority List Integration process; rather, there are several that will be used, with each having its own individual purpose. For example, the Protocol Agreement dated May 17, 2010 between the CAL MEC and UAL MEC (available on the Merger Committee web page) specified the date for both Merger Committees to initially certify the specifics of each pilot group’s employment data, including the names of all pilots on each seniority list, positions held, and leaves of absence. There will be additional “snapshots,” or updates, taken during the Seniority List Integration process to account for additions to or deletions from the respective lists, especially if the integration process continues to arbitration. When we worked out the Protocol Agreement with the UAL Merger Committee, we recognized that a considerable amount of time may be needed to negotiate a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement, so we included language that requires both Merger Committees to update the lists at a time closer to mediation and/or arbitration. http://calmecweb.alpa.org/LinkClick....edownload=true |
Yeah, you're opinion (routemap). An '07 hire had 3+ yrs longevity in 2010 at merger, vs the 8 yrs you just mentioned. Furlough is part of this business; part of anyone's expectations (just not hopeful ones). People are already talking about the next furlough. Saying furloughees have no status or expectation is just manipulation.
|
Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 1369658)
Q&A 12/20/12
7. Has a seniority list “snapshot” been taken yet and, if so, what is the date? Only the arbitrator decides which "snapshot" to use and based on the NWA/DAL arbitration you can rest assured it will NOT be a "snapshot" that either MEC presents. |
Taken from the DAL/NWA SLI:
The Pilots of Northwest Airlines, Inc. and The Pilots of Delta Air Lines, Inc.Page 18 of 32 These proceedings arise out of the April 14, 2008 announcement that Delta Airlines Inc. (“Delta” or “DAL”) and Northwest Airlines Inc. (“Northwest” or “NWA”) agreed to merge and form the world’s largest airline. . . . Because we are also mindful that attenuated disputes too frequently have emanated from other seniority integration decisions, we have opted for a list that seeks to achieve relative simplicity in its construction and its application. In this regard, we have rejected the notion (proposed, from time-to-time by both parties) of numerous categories, each seeking to define and segregate groups of aircraft according to various operating characteristics. We have chosen, instead, to recognize the fleets as divided simply into wide-body and narrow-body groupings, two for Captains, two for FOs.12 For purposes of counting aircraft and staffing assumptions,13 thus creating ratios in each category, we have selected a “snapshot” date of July 1, 2008. The NWA representatives propose an earlier snapshot, based on the claim that, after December 31, 2007, Northwest stopped operating as a stand-alone entity. Beyond that date, it is argued, the Company was “managing down”, trimming its fleet in contemplation of the merger. One may reasonably assume the respective airline managements were preparing for the merger, at some level, at or before the end of 2007. We cannot conclude, however, that NWA somehow stopped normal stand-alone operations as of December 31, nor is it clear that the merger decision, as such, necessarily led to the disposition of identifiable aircraft or routes. On the other hand, there is hard evidence in the record as to fleet reductions that actually occurred14 and we find no reason why this Board should speculate about December, 2007 and ignore the demonstrated state of the fleet as of the later date suggested by the Delta group.15 In short, we believe the staffing ratios flowing from the July snapshot more accurately reflect the appropriate list-building assumptions.16 |
Originally Posted by Sunvox
(Post 1370907)
Taken from the DAL/NWA SLI:
|
Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 1370916)
Nice find and very applicable. From that quote, and if our arbitrators use similar logic, then UAL will definitely be advantaged with their wide body count, and it's not likely they're going to count the UAL 737 parking as part of the merger.
|
Originally Posted by APC225
(Post 1370916)
Nice find and very applicable. From that quote, and if our arbitrators use similar logic, then UAL will definitely be advantaged with their wide body count, and it's not likely they're going to count the UAL 737 parking as part of the merger.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:59 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands