I remember looking at CAL back in the 1990's.

As a captain at the commuters, it was a step backwards.

Two BK's, scab culture, always the lowest paid with the worst contract.

I knew some guys that ended up there....but it was their last choice.

Now you want to feel superior.

Gimme a break, bud.

UAL sucks, but CAL is just as bad.

None of us are where we thought we'd be when we signed up for this career.

.....I'm ****ed off?.......

Sorry, not an 05-08 hire. At any rate, what I'm trying to explain to you is that whatever perspective you have as to how this integration should go down, it doesn't mean squat. All you are doing is fanning the flames and setting yourself up for (possibly) extreme disappointment.

The CAL pilots have a lot of perspective on this issue, as the top half of the CAL list is mainly comprised of pilots from several airlines that merged into CAL. There are still a few of the pilots from "back in the day" that feel they were screwed in the integration of CAL and still have an axe to grind. It's a complete waste of time.

Your best course of action right now is to:

1. Breathe
2. Try not to worry over it
3. When the integration is final, live with it and move on
4. Breathe

Combing the Flight Ops page seeking nuggets of info that you can use to prop-up your position serves no purpose. Let the MEC committees do their job. When the verdict is made, read the position report and accept it. The last thing anyone needs is another pilot "whining" about how they got screwed. It's irrelevant.

Oh, and the reason I question bid 12-03 is because the effective date of that bid would have been March, 2012. That typically means that the bid would have been published in March, 2011. That is why it doesn't make sense.

Well said!

The bid results were published in Sept 2010. Whether that makes sense to you or not is irrelevant. The results are archived under sCO Staffing on the Flying Together website.

Sled

Wrong...wrong, wrong !!!!!!

The 12 in the bid means 2012. So we don't publish bids in 2010 that are meant for 2012... but hey your a rocket scientist and brain surgeon at UAL... sorry you are right.

Once again, if you have a UAL question ask a UAL pilot and if you have a CAL question, ask a CAL pilot.

Couldn't keep you head in the sand could you. You never ask a cal pilot a question because he doesn't know the answer and will lie. Still licking that stick are you?

Well, you are right about that. I don't know the answer and I lie.
Lets add to your list, I am also an idiot for not applying to the best airline in the universe, United. What was I thinking? According to your PERSPECTIVE I am doomed.

Here is my perspective, STALLER, LAX PILOT, and JSLED are very afraid of the arbitration award.

Some of these threads had really good SLI arguments, this one is just stupid, and feels a little desperate.

Gee dad, can't I play just a while longer? I breathe just fine, and its a long flight from Iah to Eze, Gru, and Lhr. The company gave me this cool iPad. I download past SLI awards, seniority lists, scab lists, vacancy bids, crews news, etc. for my viewing pleasure. Looked up an ex classmate just the other day. He left college to scab at Eastern in '90. Of course he ended up at CAL. He must feel right at home. ;)

Sled

.....Agree.....

Since we're all having fun with this.....:rolleyes: I really am just curious if anybody else has run the numbers like I have. I agree with the above opinions about worrying about it. It's in the hands of someone else now. But, for the hell of it, I ran some numbers and I'll place my bet.

My seniority at CAL is about 38%. I'm a 2005 hire. Today's numbers, that would hold 737 Captain or any FO positions at any base.

I compared that to the Seniority list of UAL from the website minus the guys on furlough. At 38% on that list give or take a few numbers is a junior captain on the bus. There are a few captains below this position and a lot above it. Also in that seniority is a bunch of 777 FO's. It looks like with the same seniority at UAL, I'd be holding the about the same equipment or seat.

I'm not trying to raise the hair on anybodies back. Just placing my bet. I will bet that when the numbers come out, at the combined company, the 2005 hires will be about the same seniority as a mid 1996 to early 1997 hire on the combined list.

Has anybody from any other seniority group run the numbers like that? What could you hold with your percentage at the other company? Do they match up seniority wise with the same equipment? What year groups match up in your mind?

Also my bet is that anybody off property due to furlough on either list will be stapled. Not judging the right or wrong of it, again just placing bets.

Cheers guys. Keep it light. Remember, we all have to work together about 3 feet apart. We have very little say in the matter. I hope everybody is a little ****ed at the end and can get over it quickly. I look forward to drinking a few beers with my new fellow pilots.

Not desperate at all! Just don't want you thinking you can pull a scab run of 83-84 or a PE steal of 84-85. You don't know your history do you? You steal you pay -

If you say so Hoss. All I know is on the flying together website, there are bid results for 12-03, published 9/17/2010. 12-05, published 2/21/2011, and 12-07, published 7/27/2011. You can look for yourself or keep calling me names. I could care less either way.

Sled

You have your opinion. I have mine. Your scenario works great in a straight relative seniority list based on today's numbers. But the merger announcement was 3 years ago and although relative seniority and other things can be considered, 1.longevity, 2.category and status, and 3.career expectations MUST be considered. The new Alpa policy was tested in the Pinnacle/Mesaba merger. Very interesting read if your into that sort of thing.

Sled

Be careful of what you ask for! The Pinnacle/Mesaba/Colgan award makes a lot of reference to pay scale, and awards a bunch of slots due to pay scales at time of merger! I don't think you really want to go there, it's a slippery slope! Some of us were making over $40 per hour more than our UAL buddies... and do you want to look at widebody pay? 764 paid more than 744, hmmm!

What? $193 v $190? And how many more of those jobs did we have? The Pinnacle award ref to Longevity and "what each side brought to the table" (category and status) is what I expect. Mesaba fared pretty well especially in the top fifth of the list. Time will tell.

Sled

Is that narrow body to widebody comparison?

I agree Sled, all opinions. Just curious Sled, where do you think I'd be on the combined list. I'd be 200 from the bottom of the UAL list by DOH. That puts me 1200 deep into a 1400 pilot furlough. Again, not talking right or wrong in anybodies mind. Where do you think I'll be? I.E. What's your bet? Cheers.

Yes our 762 and 764 paid that as well, what did your 767 pay? And what about the bus VS 73, 129 v 169...hmm! 757 and 777 pay were the only parodies. The 737 8-9-9er paid more than the 757 at UAL. Like I said, slippery slope!

Stop cherry picking and look at things for what they are. I can freely admit that you bring more widebody seat to the table, but if Boeing had there crap together, the ballgame would be quite different. All factors will be argued, what is considered is not up to you and I, only the arbitrators consideration will matter!

When considering pay, remember to include an additional 4% 401K as well as higher medical coverage.

Saw that!

L-UAL merger committee tried to block W-2 data for a reason.

Nope, don't know the history! All these years at CAL and I know nothing and oh I lie. :).

All I have ever done in my career is hoped to fly an old faded run down 747. I looked at them from my tiny regional type 737 and hoped, dreamed, prayed I could be a United pilot. I can't wait to wear the uniform maybe people will think I was hired at L-UAL and not CAL. Man that would be so cool!

Sorry man just messing with you!


On a serious note, I look forward to the arbitration award. Our airline is finally turning the corner and the operation is improving. I want to work for a place I am proud of. Hopefully things will continue to improve.

I just hope that whatever the award is, we accept it and live with it.

Get you assumptions right. Pierce was trying to get SLI data unrelated to contract prior to starting negating the contract with the company. All necessary data has been exchanged post contract. The really bad thing was Pierce went to the company to get the data instead of asking the UAL MEC for it. "Back Stabber"


As "Ronnie" would say "there you go again!"

Not really looking to get into this ****ing contest/discussion over SLI. (Not that ANYTHING we write here will matter.. it's coming down to our respective Merger Committees and the Arbitrators~)

But, I expect (and believe it's right) that the United Pilots on a Vol Furlough will NOT be stapled and will be treated as if they never left.

Under the TPA, no pilot from either list can be advanced or displaced by accepting a position on the other sides list.. so, if a VolFur (from LUAL) is on the CAL Side, how could they lose positions from their own list?

If (hypothetically speaking) the no 1 guy at LUAL took a Voluntary Furlough, are they not still no 1 on their list?

Maybe a LUAL guy (or gal) can post how many took Vol Fur.. it would seem to me that they will (and should) be treated as being on property all along.. especially now that LUAL is (finally) recalling~

Again, just my opinion [which really doesn't mean ****]!

Motch

Do you read anything not on Skynet? Rated worst in most polls and the money will likely start to dry up if Jeff and company don't do something right. All those years of being looked down on and the withdrawal into your core have hurt you. Step outside and look around. It'll do you some good.

It's not an assumption. L-UAL merger committee tried unsuccessfully, Ii might add to block W-2 data request.

That sir is a fact. One you might not like but a fact.
Did I mention that was a fact?

What time period did those polls take into account?

I think I understand why people on here are calling you a brain surgeon!

BS. The CAL Merger cmte made a request of the company to provide W2 wage data in 2011 (includes pay, employee imputed contributions to health benefits, B plan funding, etc.) to provide a baseline from which accurate comparisons could be extrapolated from. UA gets CAL data, and vice versa. The UA MEC balked and it went to arbitration. Arbitrator ruled last summer that the information was relevant and was to be disseminated.

I think you are right Motch. I think the volunteer furloughs will not get stapled. We had volunteer LOA guys also. I don't know how many that is. Somebody stayed on property because of the volunteer though. That number, whatever it is, will be towards the bottom of the list IMO. I look forward to flying with you all!

You have nothing to back up you ASSumptions. Pierce started trying to get an advantage on SLI from day one. This is FACT. The UAL MEC stopped the release of information at that time - talking about D-Head's. You are slower than normal for a cal guy.

You are a very insulting person staller. It's one thing to debate another to insult people. Show some respect act like a professional

You really are worked up over this SLI huh?

Now you are going to tell me how to dissect the poll data - give it a rest - SLICK. You are not that smart!

sUA Volunteer furloughs and sCAL that took one of the COLA's after 9-11 will not be harmed by having done so.

I am not going to insult you buddy. Nice try.

I am very happy with my merger committee and with what they have and will do. They are some smart guys, much faster than my slow brain.

Relevant to SLI - not contract in 2011 - Greed!

So our airline has not improved in the last couple of months? What is the time frame of this poll data? Hopefully we will not be in last place again next year. Btw Delta was in last place during their second year of their merger. Of course United's customer service has been bad for a very long time it might take longer to turn that around.

We have a long way to go especially in customer service no doubt about that, but it is getting better.

And I also agree with you, I am not that smart. If I was I would be a lawyer in Washington and not on a silly public forum.

The SLI process has been an ongoing and parallel process to the JCBA since the 2 merger committees first met in late summer 2010, and the data request was for their use. Nothing to do with the contract.

I understand that and that was my point. Pierce was trying to do an end run around the UAL MEC for data he wasn't entitled to at that time. He was trying to arrange the Contract positions "Pay Banding" and such to improve the lot of the cal guys in SLI.

Kinda like your buddy doing your wife. He knew enough about you to work your wife in his favor. This is what Pierce was doing and why the UAL MEC said "NO" it's not going to be that easy.

Question to Motch, and the topic he brought forward on VOL-Furloughs......

Let's say that there were VOL-Furloughs who opted to take the status, and opted out VOLUNTARILY. While he/she was out on VOL-Furlough, there happened to be subsequent round(s) of furloughs. During the subsequent furloughs, the VOL-Furlough's seniority percentage "happens" to NOW fall below the "FURLOUGH 8-BALL LINE" while out on VOL-Furlough.

In the above case (albeit rare), those who opted out on a VOL status, now have their "seniority spot" within the furlough band as a bi-product of subsequent "pink slips" that were issued after their leave. If there are cases as such, it's not rocket science as to where the VOL-Furlough's current seniority would fall on the Legacy's Master Seniority List......In the Furlough Band......Wouldn't they become INvoluntarily furloughed for a portion of their leave??

I completely understand that no one Pilot (on their respective Legacy list) can be moved down/up relative to their fellow/pre-merged Pilots......BUT when stating that "all" VOL-Furloughs are exempt, and will return to the seniority without consideration/examination as to where they line up relative to the "Furlough Band" following subsequent furlough(s) after their leave, I find that assumption a pretty broad stroke of the brush.

I'm sure this will be just another "cog" to be battled in the presences of the 3 Arbitrators in the coming weeks.

Interesting times.

I think your point is valid. But, non of the L-UAL vol furloughs fell below the 8ball line that I am aware of.