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The coolest UAL guy I have flown with was a guy named Don Daniels. I learned a lot from that guy. We talked about some really neat stuff for four days.
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Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1439191)
But.. they can only return to the position they held, or whatever they could hold now.. correct?!
Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1439191)
So a 756 Capt or FO may still return to that seat, even if it's not technically available to those being recalled, right?
Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1439191)
But they can't move into anything higher than what they could actually hold now?
But as Scott already mentioned, every sUAL VF has already been offered a recall. Those that wanted to return to their sUAL BES have already quit sCAL and gone back. I'm sure on ISL day #1 there will be a remaining VF somewhere in the system that suddenly makes a massive overnight relative seniority jump at a pre-merger CAL domicile. |
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1438960)
Ben,
Keep in mind that there are quite a few lual pilots who saw the seniority issues during Usair merger attempt of 2000. Issues which are not far removed from where you find yourself now. What I've gleaned from that: Mob mentality can be a handicap to otherwise fair and reasonable people. At various times in my tumultuous career, I read. I went back and read Flying the Line II and Collision with Collusion last month and found lots of juicy nuggets that explain the a lot of angst the more senior among our groups might have for each other. Page 200 quoted MEC Chairman Dick Cosgave who said that in labor/management disputes "you've got to fight fair like you do with your wife, because eventually you've got to back into bed again". I think that sage statement very relevant today, especially when we are pretty much spectators in this fight. Frts, -Ben |
Originally Posted by jsled
(Post 1439060)
Good for you, Ben. I flew as Captain in '07- '09, and yet I am stapled to the bottom of your side's SLI proposal. Too bad (for both of us) the merger was in 2010, huh?
Sled PS. I've never been furloughed My hope is that we pull it together and are all where we wish to be in as little time as possible. The UAL guys who actually read my post get this, and have been pretty proactive about picking up the phone after realizing that I'm not a particularly big fan of either proposal. The two merger committees did exactly what they were felt their obligations required; but they pretty much operate in their own respective bubbles. At 43, and with the abysmal performance of UCH management, I sincerely doubt this will be my last merger. My strategies for keeping my sanity are to (1)acknowledge that I dislike one of the proposals and hate the other, with the understanding that the Arbs or UAL Pilots don't care what I think. (2) be very careful not to be party to any process that harms or otherwise disenfranchises any CAL or UAL Pilot while hiding behind a blanket "I'm just looking out for my guys" blanket excuse. (3) Never, ever, by no means try to convince a UAL Pilot that the CAL proposal is fair, especially on the forums, as the CAL proposal is just as insulting to them, as the UAL proposal is to CAL Pilots; AND there is nothing we can do about it now. Good Luck to us ALL. And Happy 4th. -Ben |
Originally Posted by Ben Salley;
AND there is nothing we can do about it now.
Good Luck to us ALL. And Happy 4th. -Ben Yes. At this point... it just doesn't matter - YouTube |
Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1439099)
Actually this is not "100%" true.
I brought this point up already in another post- but will reiterate it here. There are Furloughed (2x, not yet recalled to the LUAL Side either) LUAL Pilots who accepted positions on the LCAL Side (Per the TPA). If the LUAL Proposal were implemented, they would be senior to themselves (!) and more importantly, immediately move up on their respective BES and therefore push current LCAL Pilots backwards overnight. Motch If the flying that needed to be added into the schedule was done on a stand alone basis, i.e., flying out of IAH,EWR,DEN,ORD,SFO etc. were flown solely by each sides pilots, then how would have the hiring been done? If UCH chose to fly the 320 more (hours) and taken deliveries then how many of those UAL pilots at CAL would have actually been recalled to UAL? We know that deliveries couldn't have happened because UAL cancelled the order for 320's as soon as the merger was announced, ostensibly because they knew CAL had the extra lift coming. They could have added flying to the 320 but they sure weren't going to recall and have the training debacle at CAL. I guess and the end of the day, its not unreasonable that, sans cross fleeting and given how much more lift there is in UAL bases/routes, there would be more involuntary UAL guys recalled by this time. (I am assuming that more flying went to CAL because of the 10% add to them on the TPA. Anyone have the historical hours?) |
Originally Posted by LeeMat
(Post 1439124)
The Voluntary Furloughs will go back to whatever position they had or could hold(if said position is available), BUT only after there is a recall. That recall will happen after SLI. Now that same could be true IF along with the initial recall a few months ago, those positions had been available, IE A320 CAP, B747 CAP etc.
That recall has already happened. All Vol Furloughs have gotten a call for return to LUal. I got mine in Jan. The recall was to go back to prior BES unless couldn't hold it or didn't exist anymore. Then bumping rights take effect for the Vol furloughs. FWIW, Lee |
Originally Posted by horrido27
(Post 1439114)
Please explain...
I never stated that anyone would "lose their seat".. But 'Flush Bid' has been thrown out there and also a LUAL Pilot mentioned that "BES % is irrelevant". I disagree. If you (on either side) are bidding 50% on you equipment, in your seat and in your base.. and you immediately move to 70 or 80% bidding power, that's huge [in my opinion]. It has an impact on your earnings. It has an impact on your QoL. And this could potentially happen within one did month on the the LCAL Side. Again, I was trying to point out that even though there is suppose to be 'No Flush Bid", the results of this SLI could have somewhat of the same effect for certain pilots. What is your solution for the LUAL Voluntary Furloughs who held Captain Seats at LUAL and are now flying as FO's on the LCAL Side on the 737 and 756? Should they be seat locked wherever they are now? Should they be forced to go back to the Left Seat that they held? Interesting dilemma, huh.. Motch PS> Will you admit that the 200 or so Voluntary Furloughs actually saved the bottom current 200 or so Active Pilots at LUAL? Again, I expect that the InVol Furloughs will be placed in the SLI as if they had never left. And that has to be the way it is... IF the No 1. guy on the LUAL List has taken an InVol Furlough, he'd still be the No 1. guy! |
Originally Posted by larryiah
(Post 1439239)
The coolest UAL guy I have flown with was a guy named Don Daniels. I learned a lot from that guy. We talked about some really neat stuff for four days.
Do tell? Did you learn about how spaceships park and refuel in lenticular clouds? Did he try to let you in on his space ion energy collection company? How about magical nutrition "blue green" pills did you buy any of those?:D Check this out!! Mel Fabregas from VERITAS talks with US airline pilot Don Daniels about UFOs. - YouTube |
Don is cool as hell. He may be one of the few that really know whats going on. To think that we are alone is asinine.
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