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Originally Posted by LAX Pilot
(Post 1454414)
Yes the charts were eyeburning. What makes you think they will ignore the longevity of the furloughed pilots? They didn't in Mesaba/Pinnacle. They got their full longevity.
A longevity "calculation" or credit was not used in building that award ... the arb used DOH within status/category bands ... How would that work with our list? When you read that award, so many things similar to the CAL direct case are repeated in that award ... furthermore, Bloch was heavily influenced by what each side brought to the table as codified in the respective contracts ... and the threshold he used from merger policy was FAIR AND EQUITABLE ;) |
Originally Posted by SEDPA
(Post 1454017)
The reason for the widebody preference/bidding pattern at each legacy airline really isn't an apples to apples comparison ... at L-UAL, the pay and schedule diversity matched pretty much along the fleet type. At L-CAL, that diversity was much more homogenized, meaning that at CAL, you didn't have to be in a wide body to get near widebody pay and QOL, which wasn't as true on the L- UAL side ... That is why the CAL side doesn't buy the UAL widebody "advantage" argument, especially since the UPA will continue to homogenize the pay and QOL diversity when compared to the L-UAL pre merger contract.
If you think our future is leading towards the homogenized cal style contract you couldn't be further from the truth. Don't kid yourself thinking this pos contract passed on it's merits. Almost every pilot I spoke with said the contract was substandard, but voted for it anyway. This trend, you so describe, has a finite life span. |
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1454509)
Pretty much all cal merger committee talking points. However if you look at the average career progression of an airline pilot you will see a rise from the narrowbody ranks to the widebodies. Sure you can find some special 83 hire at cal flying the guppy, but on average, the more senior the pilot, the larger the plane he will fly. This holds true even at cal.
If you think our future is leading towards the homogenized cal style contract you couldn't be further from the truth. Don't kid yourself thinking this pos contract passed on it's merits. Almost every pilot I spoke with said the contract was substandard, but voted for it anyway. This trend, you so describe, has a finite life span. |
Originally Posted by A320fumes
(Post 1454425)
That's a pretty accurate, though incomplete, assessment Sunvox. I do it because I love it. Psycho-analogy aside, it's time for the UNITED Pilots to become UNITED. There is no win with us divided.
And, that Ladies and Gentlemen is how to build consensus. Ben you have the ability to lead and if you now are on the side of pushing us all to work together I support your agenda, but I do think you need to offer a mea culpa if you hope to gain support from the 7500 UAL pilots. This episode has shown UAL ALPA to be weak, and I would enjoy having a stronger voice working on my behalf even if I don't agree with the politics. Joe Peck IADFO - 164511 |
Syd,
I don't know what to say. Almost every pilot I have spoken with who voted for the contract said they wanted to stop the cal onslaught. If not for the merger issues but rather a stand alone contact, they would not have voted for it. If you found it as a diamond in the rough, my apologies. To me, it wreaks if a used colostomy bag discovered behind the couch two years after the fact. I understand their thinking, but disagree. |
.........Ben
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Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
(Post 1454534)
Syd,
I don't know what to say. Almost every pilot I have spoken with who voted for the contract said they wanted to stop the cal onslaught. If not for the merger issues but rather a stand alone contact, they would not have voted for it. If you found it as a diamond in the rough, my apologies. To me, it wreaks if a used colostomy bag discovered behind the couch two years after the fact. Syd and Special, You guys post regularly on APC, but I am totally unclear on your agenda. Syd clearly hates ALPA and Special you seem close behind but not willing to outline your true agenda in detail and both of you hide behind anonymity. So what gives? What do you really want from your involvement on APC? Joe Peck |
Originally Posted by Sunvox
(Post 1454540)
Syd and Special,
You guys post regularly on APC, but I am totally unclear on your agenda. Syd clearly hates ALPA and Special you seem close behind but not willing to outline your true agenda in detail and both of you hide behind anonymity. So what gives? What do you really want from your involvement on APC? Joe Peck I think that opinion is wider than you might like here at ual. Hey but I could be wrong. Best of luck with your agenda. |
Originally Posted by syd111
(Post 1454563)
Geez Joe so do we have to have an agenda to post here or do we have to clear it with you first? As far as my feelings towards Alpa, no I don't like how it has been run over the years I hope that is okay with you.
I think that opinion is wider than you might like here at ual. Hey but I could be wrong. Best of luck with your agenda. |
The merged list will be God's will.
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