UAL CNX A320 orders
 

There were 42 A320 on the books since BK? These A320 are no longer a mistery since they are being CNX in small increments..


By Robert Wall
July 03, 2013 9:41 AM EDT


Airbus SAS’s backlog rose to a record after the No. 2 planemaker booked 241 orders last month, fueled by sales at the week-long Paris Air Show that brought in $129 billion worth of deals for airliners.
The order book grew to 5,109 planes after Airbus handed over 48 jets last month, it said on its website today. The Toulouse, France-based company said it was the first time a planemaker had reached that level of to-be-delivered jets, equal to about seven years of sustained production,
The manufacturer shipped 295 planes in the first six months as it booked 722 net orders after 36 cancellations.
Airbus won deals worth almost $70 billion at the aerospace expo last month, bringing it within its target of 800 orders for the year. Announced commitments, including a pending 135 plane order from European discount carrier EasyJet Plc (EZJ), and the purchase of 20 A380 superjumbos by Doric Asset Finance Ltd., bring Airbus to about 1,000 orders this year.
Deutsche Lufthansa AG (LHA)’s firmed up a previously announced deal for 100 A320 single-aisle jets in the largest transaction last month, leaving the airline to still finalize terms for two additional A380s it has committed to buying.
Airlines bought 65 A350s after the plane completed its first flight on June 14. Deals included 30 A350-900s, the model that flew, from Singapore Airlines Ltd. (SIA) and another 25 from Air France-KLM (AF), Europe’s largest airline, with United Airlines (UAL) signing for 10 larger version -1000s. United also canceled orders for 11 A320 short-haul planes.
To contact the reporter on this story: Robert Wall in London at [email protected]
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Benedikt Kammel at [email protected]

Probably downsizing for the merger.

NOPE this article is from today and the Merger happened 3 years ago. MAD May 2010 and MCD October 2010!

Then we are all seriously in trouble considering that sCAL has also cancelled orders since the UAL merger was announced in 2010. ;)

For some odd reason, once the merger was announced UAL didn't need narrow-bodies and CAL didn't need more jumbos. Weird, huh?

It was an attempt at humor by CleCapt, I get that. Lets not let this deteriorate into another silly SLI argument. Ok just one more attempt at humor:
The true MAD date should really be August 2013, cause after that date we will all be MAD!

Call your buddy Edward Snowden. I'm sure he could fill you in.

If the government has nothing to hide, then why is it afraid to answer a few questions. LiesLiesLies

thread drift here...

11 A320s = X A350s?

I find it rather ironic that UAL had these A320 orders with deposits made on the books for a substantial number of years until the CAL merger. Could it be that these A320's were held in the event of a USAirways merger to replace the UA NB fleet (Classic 737's) but was not necessary since CAL had many 737's already ordered (but ironically really had no way to pay for all of them)?

Probably. One of the expert witnesses even said that Tilton didn't know if it would be USAir or CAL, so they didn't want to commit to one or the other type until they knew.

Tilton DOES know whether it will be a Golden or Platinum parachute though.

One word of advice LeeMat. Pay attention to those little red squiggly lines under certain words like mistery. The computer does that for a reason.

And there I was thinking that I had a display issue with my computer. Learn something new everyday! Thanks.:D

He's a traitor that will die in a third country. No one will remember him in a year, just like Jay Pierce.:cool:

Hint to UAL Pierce haters, he is not the problem, only a distraction.

Just a step towards purchasing VX. Cancel current A320 orders and take VX. The competition on EWR is too much and long run they are better off buying out the competition. ;)

Buy a virgin, spare a cankle.

Shy as happy as that'd make you... United could probably just run VA out of business.

Maybe a320 orders are xcld because of all the EMB175 aircraft that United purchased for their unnamed regional partner. Just fuel for the fire.

I was j/k. I don't expect any VX merger or buyout until post-IPO. As for United, they have their number crunchers. I'm sure they'll figure out how much it costs to put VX out of business and how much it costs to just acquire them. Plus, I don't see the Virgin brand merging with a legacy. The most likely candidate would be JetBlue, past history with Neelman and Branson, similar onboard product, similar fleet (different engines) and heavy east coast presence with JetBlue and west coast with VX.

That'd be a merger made in heaven. BlueVirgin

Or, Virgin Blew, even. (Sorry , I couldn't resist.)

virgin Blue

Finally some decent levity.

Since Branson is selling out of the original Virgin, maybe he sees the competitive landscape changing long term.

He whistle blew on the NSA and then the director of the NSA got caught lying to congress about what was actually being recorded.

What would our state arm propaganda media do without Snowden and Zimmerman? Thanks to them our media can omit talking about real news. Kim's new baby is named North West? Whaaaa? Meanwhile the US supplies Al Queda's Syrian Army "Al Nausra Front" (media never mentions them as the largest army in Syria) weapons via the FSA.

Forget about Snowden, Al Queda supposedly caused 9/11 and we continue to find them... ***?

Ben Swann Interview: 'The NSA Is Lying' - YouTube

Oh, and Iceland's parliament has drafted legislation to give Snowden citizenship. No third world country or over flight permits needed. Russia's not giving Snowden back because they and China have been at war with us via Assad in Syria. Of course no one will admit we're at war because that's bad for our stock markets. Needless to say... Russia's new oil pipe line in Syria has been stopped.

+1 CleCapt

UAL folks still think they did us a favor with the merger.

UAL folks and CAL folks better become UNITED folks before the next contract rolls around or we will TOAST folks for very long time!:rolleyes:

I agree Lee....million dollar ?...how? There is soooo much finger pointing( and raising) on this forum...just like putting fuel on hot coals...kaboom! I sure hope the sli gets done, everyone takes their lumps like real men and women, and get this airline on track to be the juggernaut she is destined to be!

Actually, there are less than a half (.5) percent of all the UCAL Pilots, on this Forum.
Of which, only a handful on both sides throw out venom and BS.

Every Furloughed NewHire LUAL Pilot I've flown with has been cool. Yes, I've met some LUAL guys who don't acknowledge a nod or hello when I've seen them at the airport or hotel, but who knows- maybe they are having a bad day. Nothing "Personal".

Come Aug/Sept we will argue about the placement of ourselves on the list, and why the Arbitrators did what they did.. but in the end, we need to move forward and can not live in the past.

Motch

Oh you can bet that a bunch of pilots will be living in the past if anything like the CAL list is put in place. It will be a delightful place to work. Who wouldn't smile when a 1997 start makes you junior to almost everyone else?

See? Told ya so....

Oh course lets use the 2010 list using full longevity ( as some here suggest) for pilots that WERE NOT ON PROPERTY. Before you give me the downsize crap, maybe you were. But YOU enabled them to do it.

United deliveries of 70 seat jets 2008-2010 : 50+ ?
Continental deliveries of 70 seat jets 2008-2010: 0.

SCOPE you gave it up we didn't. But at least you looked out for all your furloughs by getting them jobs at Skywest and Go-jets. Flying what, oh yeah the 70 seaters that replaced your guppies. But they were making 2 year pay of a whopping 30/Hr. Real hard core unionists...

Want to use 2010 fine, but you can't use pilots that were not on property to inflate your own numbers.

Why not? The CAL proposal used pilots not on the property and placed them ahead of active UAL pilots.....

They also used longevity for pilots flying at Continental Express and didn't disclose any furlough time.

So the CAL side set the precedent in their opener that it can be used. Plus ALPA merger policy says nothing about being furloughed or not. As a matter of fact, the ONLY merger done under the new policy placed pilots on furlough ahead of active pilots because they had more LONGEVITY. Its to protect a pilot who has built up longevity and then just prior to a merger gets furloughed.

Anyway, its a "seniority list integration" and not an "active pilot integration". Furloughed pilots are on the seniority list.

In the case of LUAL and LCAL SLI, placing unemployed pilots ahead of active pilots is NOT "fair and equitable". The purpose of the merger policy is the creation of a FAIR and EQUITABLE list. Again, the policy is written in such a way that the arbitrators can use essentially anything they want as long as they produce a fair and equitable list.

In the pinnacle award, ( which I assume is what you are referring to), did they furlough their pilots by the union selling out the junior pilots, with smaller aircraft flown by a contract carrier to replace their own flying?

In reference to that award, don't know the specifics, but from what I have heard it was a very small group of pilots ( less the 50) that had an almost insignificant impact to the overall award. If you know ( or anyone who has) the exact specifics of that case I would be interested to hear it.

In the pinnacle award, ( which I assume is what you are referring to), did they furlough their pilots by the union selling out the junior pilots, with smaller aircraft flown by a contract carrier to replace their own flying?

In reference to that award, don't know the specifics, but from what I have heard it was a very small group of pilots ( less the 50) that had an almost insignificant impact to the overall award. If you know ( or anyone who has) the exact specifics of that case I would be interested to hear it.

Show me specifically in policy, where that is written and how do you explain how that was used in Pinnacle/Colgan/Mesaba?

LAXPilot..
Do you have the P/C/M Award document that you could email me..
Thanks
Motch

PS> on the Thread dealing with it, it sends you to another Forum that I can't access. But reading the 25 pages of stuff.. pretty interesting~

P/M/C Award (pdf)

Note that XJ (Mesaba) had 159 pilots on furlough at the time of the merger (2010) but there is not a separate category for furloughed pilots---only post-merger new-hire "constructive notice" pilots. The XJ pilots were recalled in March, 2011 and the award was completed in June, 2011.

From the award:

The ISL was created on the basis of a Status and Category grouping that is organized, within each group, according to date of hire. The basic list was divided into the following groups and ratios:

1) CRJ-900 Captain (M: 272/P: 100/C:0)

2) Q400 plus CRJ-200 Captains (M:88/P:581/C:149)

3) Saab Captains (M:132/P:0/C:149)

4) Jet First Officers (CRJ-900 and CRJ-200) (M:314/P:448/C:0)

5) Turboprop First Officers (M:194/P:0/C:158)

6) Constructive Notice Pilots (M:16/P:225/C/152)

CD-
Thanks for posting the Award decision. Actually got it today from another source.

What I find interesting is this-
All three groups submitted lists AND argued FOR Date of Hire as part of the list.
Date of Hire is mention in the award.. but, if you read the actual Award statements, it says;

A. The Integrated Seniority List (ISL) for the pilot groups at issue shall be based on Status and Category, in accordance with the list appended to this Award as Attachment A.

Interestingly enough, no mention of the Career Expectations or Longevity are in the Award Statement.
However.. looking at the "restrictions" ie, Fences-
It can be argued that certain "career expectations" were protected for all sides based on what they brought to the table.

Also, it mentions the fact that Mesaba brought alot to the table and states the fact that Pinnacle and especially Colgan gained from this merger alone.

Yes, reading the Mesba proposal and the final outcome, it looks as if Mesba was the closest of the three with regards to proposal/outcome.

What does this mean for us?!
Who knows! lol

I say that jokingly as theirs was a three way deal vs. our two way.
Also, while there may be some similarities.. there is also a vast difference.
Amount of furloughs (not only straight numbers, but from a percentage point), and the fact that the two other groups gained from Mesaba's CBA.

We will know what kind of History our three Arbitrators make within the next few months~
God knows, it will be discussed and used in future SLI Hearings!

I know what I'm expecting.. and once the list is out, I'll state if it met my expectations.

But one thing is for sure after reading the M/P/C Arbitrator's Decision.. his interpretation of ALPA Policy is different that what many on here are claiming.
Which goes to show- that one little line "in no particular order and with no particular weight shall include but not be limited to the following:"
Gives the Arbitrators ALOT of latitude~

Motch