ALPA is staying.

Want to place a bet on that? I predict alpo will be bankrupt or gone from the UAL property in under 2 years.

Unions have been great for America. We are doing so well!

The first case of craft beer is on me, sent to your house if in 2 years ALPA is off the property.

DAL has tried and cant muster more than 500 or so cards this year and if an election was to be called, the Teamsters will ask to be put on the ballot as well and ALPA wins any vote by 75% at least.

I would say that for now ALPA is staying. We need to get the unified MEC to tell Jeff the free ride is over.

However, if Moak tries to hold back more of the retro pay, I'd personally work as hard as I can to decertify and go independent.

ALPA is not a UNION. Sorry if this upsets some of you but by its' own name it is an ASSOCIATION, a confederation if you will. A real union brings together those employed in the same craft, piloting commercial airliners, and ensures equal pay for equal work. By design ALPA creates conflict and dissention, pitting one pilot group against another. ALPA defenders will try to tell you how the system actually works, making it the perfect platform for "pattern bargaining" which will result in "jacking up the table" as each group negotiates a new contract. The only fly in this ointment has been deregulation which has provided management with the tools to cut the legs off the table, reducing pilot compensation and QOL. Please do not associate a real union with a national seniority list. An NSL is not necessary to have an effective UNION, and in fact would be impossible to establish among currently employed pilots so please do not use even bring it up. The bitterness, rancor and divisiveness that has been generated by this SLI process has been seen in every merger and will be revisited in the next one. With a real union this would not be such an issue. But don't let me be the one to state what is necessary, in 1990 Captain Hank Duffy, speaking as the outgoing ALPA president said, "I believe unequivocally that anything less than a strong centralized national union in today's environment is suicide for the profession and eventually for every pilot group." We were warned! The death spiral for our profession started over three decades ago and the turns seem to be getting tighter each year. You better pull out now, that is if it is not already to late.

Nope. Its a "trade union" formed under FRLA. Its a UNION.

Middle Eastern carriers growing rapidly and pouring money into Washington with the goal of putting you out of work. I think going forward having a known voice on Capital Hill representing large groups of US pilots is going to become increasingly important. Fighting pre-clearance US customs facilities in Abu Dhabi funded in part with our own tax dollars is just the tip of the sand dune.

Weekends, holidays, paid vacation, sick leave, workers compensation for lost life and limb, retirement benefits, work place safety, child labor laws . . .

All these benefits that you take for granted came at the expense of lost lives and hard work from previous "unions", but because Milton Friedman convinced America that Unions were the devil we now have a group of workers that are convinced that Unions are the problem. Could it be that Unions are not the problem? That sometimes pure Capitalistic Laissez Faire economics is not the total solution?

Nahhh. . .

Down with the unions! Especially ALPA. It doesn't help me even though I have done nothing to help ALPA . . . . ALPA is the problem. The individual should get everything they want without having to get involved!


Ah, yeah, no.


Study the history of unions and how they can be effective and how they can be abusive. Then come back and post . . .



And, for the record, America is the most powerful and efficient nation in the history of mankind and our middle class, which is the backbone of the nation, is successful in no small part because of the unionization that occured immediately before and after WWII.

Wow, fantastic. Have you seen the economy in the States, you realize what has been going on recently. You meant the Teachers unions, especially in Chicago? Large home builders that are shedding away from union workers because of costs. Auto Workers in Detroit?

Ya, I was a volunteer for ALPA. And I got to see the lovely parties in Florida and Vegas. And got to see how my grievance was settled for about ten cents on the dollar. If I owned a business making those kind of deals, my business would surely fail. Exactly why threads like this exists.

Is America the all powerful nation in the world? I don't know anymore. Maybe our military is. But economically? Which way is the country heading? You can do some research if you think the economy is really recovering.