Oh, they are coming. And as I said in my post, there will be no need to displace the 05/06 Captains, as there are plenty of 737s yet to be delivered. THe 05/06 guys will just be a nice reserve cushion for all the 75/76 FOs that will come cascading down on top of them when they get their displacements. Seniority rules!

"Displacements thru staffing" ???? you need to read the new contract, skippy. Displacements are displacements. When the 76T pilots get their diplacements (bumps), they can go wherever they can hold. It's the United way, baby. Get ready.

"05/06 Captains will be Captains for their entire career"....I am sure that's what many of them thought in 2008....right before getting displaced back into the right seat. Absolute statements in this business are foolish.

Sled

So are yours!!;) Are you always this offensive like your posts are? Or do you just save it for the forum?!:confused:

Telling you there will be displacements when 91 jets are parked is a little more certain and can be backed by past precedent. Saying "I will be a Captain for the rest of my career" is a little more far fetched. Wouldn't you agree? Do you really believe there will be no displacements? There are already more rsv lines than hard lines in 2- 76T bases. As for being offensive, sorry. I don't sugarcoat.

Sled

Snarge-
I have to ask what you have achieved through your "culture". Bankrupt and 1400 pilots furloughed for the last decade. You say "FUPM" is a bad thing. I thought the purpose of a job was to make money. Don't understand the mentality of soft time. Flying 65 hrs getting credit for 75 with only 12-14 days off is exactly as it sounds, stupid. Why not go to work to work. Work a little harder on your days on and we can all get more off. Ask a Southwest guy or gal what they think about 12 days off. You seem to think productivity is a bad thing. Sorry I have to disagree. I don't mind flying 8 hrs a day for 80 hrs and 20 days off. At 120-130 an hour as an fo, that's not bad living. Not sure what your problem with pay banding is. I would much rather have several aircraft pay wide body pay than have one pay some amount that creates a ton of commuters. I actually like to be able non rev from Iah to ewr. Now I am one all for work rules, but sometimes it seems we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The same work rules that applied in the 80's don't necessarily make life better when you are dealing with computerized scheduling. All that said, we should replace culture with common sense. Work when you are at work and then go home, again it's not rocket science.

Please tell us more about the pilot culture that made those management decisions. Please be specific.

You lost me here. Productivity is one of the many items both "cultures" can agree on.

The soft-time is a reaction to UAL's scheduling practices that would otherwise build trips with low trip credit in the off months and when desired by crew scheduling. Productivity is great but the pilots don't build the schedules so even if productivity is desired it is not always offered.

Historically UAL scheduling has preferred not to build trips with 8 hours of flying per day on the narrow-body so crews remain legal when the inevitable weather events occur at hubs. An operation with several major domiciles is, by nature, a different beast than an operation with two. They have also considered pilots a "fixed cost" so why give guys 18 days off when they can schedule 12 off and have them available for re-assignment without repercussion?

Now imagine that scenario in your example above but only get paid for 65 hours with 12-14 days off. And yes, that is stupid and the rigs are a reaction to that stupidity. We wouldn't need work rules, or perhaps even a union, if we were in a utopian universe with a benevolent and intelligent employer.

Every pilot I know flying 76T has told me they are waiting to get displaced to bid guppy Captain. They aren't bidding out because the said they aren't flying that much anyway and they don't think there will be advertised guppy Captain bids for them. Plus the displacement gives them no freezes.

So they are waiting to displace someone out of a guppy Captain. The most likely bases are LAX, SFO, DEN, and ORD. Especially DEN. I know guys chomping at the bit to be Captains in DEN again. Almost every 76T FO in DEN can hold guppy Captain there.

There will probably be some that displace to IAH or EWR as well.

The bumps are a coming.

747 is a premuim aircraft. It should pay more. 777 as well. Lowering that pay to accomodate the 767-400 was a stupid idea. They only pay the same because the CAL NC insisted on it because they were afraid UAL would use it as a status and category advantage.

Didn't matter. UAL got the advantage still since 747 and 777 were counted as Jumbo by the arbitrators per the UAL MC proposal, and the 767-400 was put into mid-body with the UAL 757-200s.

So it didn't work, and now we all get to fly a 747 or 777 for less than we could have been paid.

Its a good thing the remnants of the CAL ALPA structure are in the history books.

Cadet,

The tradeoff for the CAL side was that reserves could end up with only 4 days off under the old CAL reserve system because if they didn't use you on a reserve day the company could come back later and call that an "OFF" day and they make you fly into your scheduled days off. Imagine commuting to reserve with only 4 days off a month. Now they get 12 or 13 guaranteed. Three times better than before.

So a couple people at the top got to benefit from the loose rules, and the rest got hammered.

The union should put rules in place to protect all pilots, not just the special ones. UAL ALPA did it right with the contract with regard to work rules.

Pilot and Jsled:

While I agree that saying they will be capts for life is a bit foolish… But what concrete source do you have that the bumps are coming. In the last FOU this question was asked directly, and they said no. They even had a hard time bumping the SEA guys.

Now , while I know you two dream all night about your "bumps", think about it. If every 76T bumps down to 73 capt, all those junior CAL guys gotta go somewhere. The cascade effect would be so bad, they would have to hire an additional 250 pilots just for the training bubble( that's what I have been told).

With you super awesome seniority Jsled, why don't you just bid your captain slot on this current vacancy bid?

There are 1,400 L-UAL FOs flying as 76T FOs. They are in EVERY BASE. LAX, SFO, SEA, DEN, ORD, JFK, IAD, and IAH. They aren't going to bid off on anything.

The company announced the parking of 91 jets, which equates to about 800 of those pilots being displaced out of their slots. They ALL REALIZE that they can mosly hold guppy Captain in their own home base. These are guys who are EXPERTS at playing this game. We went through this in 2001-2003 and again in 2009. They know exactly how to bump and how the game works.

The company can say whatever they want, but there are 76T FO's that can mostly hold Guppy Captain.

Not to mention the same number of 76T Captains, most of which willl also bump into those guppy Captain bids.

That makes about 1,800 of the 7,400 L-UAL pilots with about 87% of them able to not only hold guppy Captain, but most of the lineholders.

They will be bumping to those seats. I'd do the exact same thing in that fleet. I can hold guppy Captain in my base by over 3,500 seniority numbers. I'd be a good lineholder.