Originally Posted by BobWiley (Post 1555716)

Man spending years at the regional and now coming on property here has really been unbelievable! reading all these threads about our company makes me feel like I'm flying at a regional again. Everything so far (except for the 737 training and the super unintuitive ccs program) has been great. I really enjoy the crews I fly with and trips I fly. All you new guys coming on are gonna love it!

Sincerely,

Bob

Originally Posted by mccurtool (Post 1556125)

Went thru TK in 2/08 and IAH in 10/12 both on the 737. The two programs are very different in their approach yet get you to the same place in the end (hopefully), a passed check ride. Without getting emotional on the two here are my observations:

1. Facilities - DEN is like a small college campus while IAH is like a Flight Safety building. I preferred the atmosphere in DEN. It was easy to find a study room or FTD to run on your own time. Not too mention the cafeteria along with History on display in TK. I have to say also that Doris in DEN is by far the nicest lady you will ever encounter in this business. She goes out of her way to make you feel like your part of a very special family.

2. Equipment - IAH has the edge with regards to newer SIMs, basic audio/visual equipment, and PCs. DEN was still using VHS tapes and most PCs were yellowing from age. You could tell capital was short thru/ after their bankruptcy. DEN did give you the ability to run the empty FTDs on your own which was a plus.

3. Ground School (Systems) - completely different approach. Cal with the CBT, teach yourself answers to the test method. UAL with traditional classroom/instructor, build the airplane from scratch method. I definitely felt more knowledgeable coming out of the traditional method.

4. FTD/SIMs - once again different approach. CAL had multiple FTDs/SIMs with a different instructor almost every session. This did provide the opportunity for getting different perspectives and methods however did prove challenging with regards to "standardization". At UAL I remember having the same instructor throughout which made standardization a non factor and seemed to help a little bit with tailoring lessons to weak areas from previous lessons.

5. Schedules - CAL schedules were much more fluid due to the amount of training and available SIMs/Instructors. UAL schedules were pretty solid and seemed to be more commuter friendly.

6. Instructors - I must say I thought the guys in both buildings were both knowledgable, friendly, and were there too help if asked. There were some absolutely GREAT instructors in both buildings. I will add though that there were a couple of higher ups in IAH that I personally did not care for, but I'm sure they didn't care for some of us.

All in all both programs are there to get you through and to the line. They just do it in different ways coming from different past practices. I'm a United guy at heart so I'm biased but there are great people in both buildings that are there to get you thru and help make you a better pilot.

Originally Posted by Probe (Post 1556419)

I have always considered training a bit of a vacation. I have an adult beverage most nights during training. I have 4 types and an FE from UAL, and one from CAL.

I will skip the gory details. The big paintbrush is this:

UAL:
After 4 weeks and little stress, excellent standardization, and great instructors, I felt very knowledgeable and passed my check ride. I stayed in a nice hotel, downtown, with lots of stuff to do.

CAL:
After 6 weeks, a little stress caused by zero standardization, and also with great instructors, I passed my check ride. If this was my first 121 rating course I would say at the end I would have had extremely poor knowledge of systems, and what is and is not important to know. My U-hire sim partner and myself shook our heads in disbelief for most of the 6 weeks. I stayed 8 weeks in a nice hotel, in an industrial/slum part of IAH, with very little within walking distance.

The CAL instructors (pilots) all had great attitudes. But the "system" in which they worked simply didn't require any standardization.

Originally Posted by bearcat (Post 1556395)

with regards to training....it is a welcome break from the line and a little short of vacation. I hear the sUAL guys complaining about the 737 training. It's a joke. No you are not being patted on the back for knowing whatever that alternate flaps thing does, or the standby power check. an ILS is an ILS. Park jet go home drink beer and talk about something else. Truly a joke. They can take the 6 weeks and make it 3, but some guys want 12 weeks. I went out every other night...should have went out every night.....meanwhile back in the crew room you will stand there listening to your CA mentoring about the weather between LAX and SFO. You are going anyway........but I digress..

Originally Posted by missingbite (Post 1556444)

Quite possibly the dumbest things I have ever read on the boards.

Originally Posted by JetBlast77 (Post 1555770)

Bob, I'm starting class in a week. Just curious, what was bad about the training in the 73? All the best, glad youre enjoying the line!

Originally Posted by Lerxst (Post 1555901)

But the guppy training scheduling, which is a huge part of the dysfunction, is all in Willis now with LUal peeps running that show.

Originally Posted by bearcat (Post 1556391)

I've been here for awhile. This forum is NOT what I have seen on the line ever. Don't get the wrong idea. This truly is one of the most inaccurate forums I have ever seen.

Originally Posted by contrail67 (Post 1557789)

Just be careful what you read and get absorbed into. I know that there are 2 guys on here that post, that are acutally in the UND..University of North Dakota flying program here posing as United pilots that just bash stuff. Take most of the negative commentary with a grain of salt....they post on here to attempt to stir things up.

you can create a profile and put anything down you want.

Originally Posted by Point99orbetter (Post 1557996)

mcurtool has a good post above.
I've been through both buildings. I laughed when he said Cal schedule is more "fluid". Wow, what a nice way to say unorganized, random, scatter-brained, ad-libbed, unpredictable, or from-the-hip.
At TK you get a full print-out of your whole training schedule, with what instructor (with the same instructor for each week of training), in what room of the building, at what time. Organized and professional.
At the CAL sim building, 20-some guys crowd around the top of the stairway waiting for some random instructor to walk down the hall and yell your name out. Then wander through the building opening random doors looking for a briefing room. What a joke.

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558006)

It shouldn't be this way. The United training center was set up to run like a military organization, which means efficient, professional, and on time. I've never been to the CAL guppy school, but it sounds like they should try a little organization at least.

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558006)

I've never been to the CAL guppy school, but it sounds like they should try a little organization at least.

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558006)

It shouldn't be this way. The United training center was set up to run like a military organization, which means efficient, professional, and on time. I've never been to the CAL guppy school, but it sounds like they should try a little organization at least.

Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 1558021)

In all my military training, what point 99 describes is exactly how we do it. Wait around the ready room for an instructor you may or may not already know, meet and shake hands, then look for a place to brief....

Originally Posted by Grumble (Post 1558021)

In all my military training, what point 99 describes is exactly how we do it. Wait around the ready room for an instructor you may or may not already know, meet and shake hands, then look for a place to brief. .....

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558006)

It shouldn't be this way. The United training center was set up to run like a military organization, which means efficient, professional, and on time. I've never been to the CAL guppy school, but it sounds like they should try a little organization at least.

Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer (Post 1558101)

I'm an Air Force guy, but flew with the Navy for two years in a VT squadron.

What Grumble describes was what I saw in the Navy.

What Point99 describes is more common in Air Force training, both UPT, and MWS.

You could say both training centers are similar to the military. TK is more like the Air Force. Houston is more Like the Navy. Both get the job done.

I've never been to the IAH facility. But I've been through five programs at TK. I never had any complaints about my training there, other than van rides to the hotel, and midnight sim times.

Originally Posted by Really (Post 1558113)

Then you should probably not comment on something you know nothing about!! :rolleyes: Leave it to people that have valuable comments that actually add to the discussion!!

Originally Posted by Really (Post 1558113)

:rolleyes: Leave it to people that have valuable comments that actually add to the discussion!!

Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 1558280)

Those people have commented and the consensus is that IAH training is disorganized and off the hip. So what's your point?

Originally Posted by oldmako (Post 1558332)

Man what a boring forum this would be if we held all posters to that level of veracity.

Originally Posted by Really (Post 1558494)

Pilot64 has never been through IAH training so why is he commenting on the quality of said training! )

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558507)

Just pointed out that all the Uhires stated it was the worst training they'd ever been through yet none of the CAL pilots had been through TK and have no frame of reference.

Originally Posted by pilot64golfer (Post 1558507)

Just pointed out that all the Uhires stated it was the worst training they'd ever been through yet none of the CAL pilots had been through TK and have no frame of reference.

Originally Posted by Probe (Post 1559413)

PV;
When I arrived in Houston I went to the Hotel lobby bar for a burger. There were a dozen or so pilots going through training there. There was one topic of discussion - IAH training, and how poor it was. That dominated most pilot discussions for the next 8 weeks. This included every single student, whether U-hire, new hire, etc. The newbie ex-military guys didn't know what to expect so they didn't say much.

The U-hires you are flying with are just being polite and exercising good CRM. I don't have to do either on an internet board.

Again, this is nothing against the individual pilot instructors, but the poor system that they work under. The instructors all had good attitudes.

Originally Posted by PVpilot (Post 1559562)

So you think they where being polite. And good CRM to me means don't BS me. Well, maybe but more likely could it be that if you get bunch of uhires together that there going to ***** about anything. I get it, this group has had a rough time. Hired fifteen years ago, double furlough, called back by another airline, then fly with Captains who where hired when you where or well after. I get it, but get them one on one and get an honest assessment and it's a different tune. The most important think in training is new top of the line sims and instructors. The rest is fluff that can be easily fixed. I'm sure the system will be adjusted and the food quality will improve with time as the flow of training thru HTC will increase. If the burgers still suck then go fly the bus at TK.

Originally Posted by mossimo (Post 1559582)

Another U-hire here. The assessment of training that is on this thread is very accurate. I had better training at a regional than I got in IAH.

Is that a new chapter of CRM? Don't BS you about the quality of training? Part of CRM is teamwork, so how much teamwork is there going to be if I spill my guts to some overly sensitive ex-Con about their crappy training program...get real.

Originally Posted by PVpilot (Post 1559625)

I think you're the overly sensitive one. Sorry you had a poor experience in training. My experience has been good, brand new top of the line sims with quality instructors that want you to learn and succeed. I suggest sending an e-mail to the Houston 737 TC with your issues, they do want to create a top quality training experience from friends I know in the department. If it's still not up to your standards, no worries, you can always bid the bus.

Originally Posted by Dragon7 (Post 1559631)

So if you are a new hire what to make of all of this? You are going to TK for Indoc. Didn't do that but nice building. If you go 737 you are coming back to IAH to train. If you are a Uhire you probably won't like it, but the uhires I talked to who went through United 72FE say you just might. If you did 73 back before furlough 1or 2 it is a type ride course not a right seat only course. No spoon feeding, others words who experienced it, not mine. They give you the script of every flight ahead of time. They do not vary from it. Briefs are not hard at all .

If you are a Regional background, probably split view. The hotel, per diem, and full paycheck tends to jump out at you though. RJ folks in general smoke the program.

If you are military you will laugh at the amount of butthurt. Great comment in thread it is more Navy like than Air Force. To extend that not like Navy flight
school, more like FRS specific airplane training with more technique included. Except no surprises from the script.

Have posted already what needed improvement. They taught me pretty well to fly the plane.

Look forward to all the improvements our new pilot leadership will bring.

Care more that the company leadership figures out how to have higher margins so we all make money and never get furloughed.

Originally Posted by Probe (Post 1559938)

PV must be one of the very junior instructors at IAH that started each brief with "it is not a guppy anymore, it is a real airplane".

The vast majority of lCAL pilots I fly with complain about flying a guppy as much as I do. They also say IAH training sucks. Their exact comment is "that is the way it has always been."

Time to change it. Unfortunately that will involve a lot of turf wars between the training center.

PS. UAL 727 FE training WAS the worst training I ever received prior to this year. It got bumped down to second.