The legacy United pilot side difference wasn't management. It was the pilot group, including the mid level pilot managers that made being a United pilot enjoyable... respectable.... professional.

You've heard it before, from the new hire treatment at United (wing ceremonies at a company paid dinner) to nice aircraft pictures and coffee table book for retirement. You know the CAL experience so I won't detail it. But it was the pilots, not management, that made the pilot experience at United what it was... IOW, screw management, we don't want or need them to define us, (they will fund it though :) )

I can go into any legacy united chief pilot office and talk about scabs, ALPA, the profession, etc....( I got my scab clicker in ops.)
I am not comfortable doing that on the CAL side..


The pilots on the United side made the job/career what it was... we all engaged in the process... and if guys weren't actually doing union work, you knew they supported the guys who did....

Sure there were problems... the internal political fighting on the U-MEC was complex, nasty and counter-productive.



So I guess, the question becomes... what do you want?

I'd be glad if the 97 hires, NY Air, and PE guys would get on board, but my focus is the 05-07 hires. Let's see if the following can stick or degenerate into another ****ing contest.

The CAL MEC/NC/Merger committee did a poor job.
CAL pilot expectations were poorly managed.
Compare your MAD 2010 Seniority list to the ISL.
Read, actually read, the ISL opinion and award.
Accept that CAL pilots accepted ALPA merger policy and it was applied fairly.
There are no conspiracies or back room deals.
The chances or decertifying ALPA or overturning the ISL are low and highly expensive.

Reconcile all of this.... close the history book... Look forward.
I can type for hours how management has and will continue to divide us....

By now the CAL guys know that not wearing your pin is a hard core FU to every United pilot. What do you hope to gain in the long run?

With all pilots on board, sans scabs, we can do two things:

Get the best contract we deserve.
Create the best pilot culture and profession in the world. Yeah, I just said that... the World.

The choice is each individual pilots.... get engaged and unified, or get divided and owned. What do you want?

No broad brushes, accusations or attempts to characterize over 4000 other pilots.
Can you please explain how the words "windfall", "gratitude" and "gained" can be used in the context of losing almost eight years of seniority to hundreds of younger pilots?
The SLI is a fait acompli, I don't dispute that. Exactly how you were harmed by it?

This is where the water gets muddy. If all of agree to the ALPA merger policy, then we must agree that seniority is based on several factors, it is not simply DOH, or CAT/Status. If you agree with this policy then to say that you lost 8 years of seniority is simply untrue. Placing a pilot hired at CAL in 2005 above a UAL 1998 hire doesn't cause that UAL pilot lose seniority any more than it causes a CAL pilot to gain seniority.

Just like a person's "relative percentage" changing does not mean they lost seniority.

Your idea of entitlement was your MECs proposal to put 3000 LUAL pilots at the bottom of the seniority list? Sorry you can't have everything you want in life.

How exactly was SLI not fair exactly?

Correct. The difference being that if a pilot did, in fact, sit lower on a relative percentage post SLI, then to say that they lost relative percentage is a valid observation. The same can be said for the 1998 hire at UAL who is behind the CAL 2005 hire. The UAL pilot can make the point that he is junior to a pilot hired at 2005 at CAL. That pilot cannot, however, make the claim that they lost 8 years seniority.

You rehashed the ALPA merger policy and I'm not disputing it. My opinion (& yours) of it is irrelevant. I am trying to understand how any LCAL person could feel they were harmed by the SLI and make the previous poster explain why he thinks every LUA person gained something and why we should all be grateful to to LCAL pilots for giving something to us. I know it sounds silly, but that was the tone of the post to which I originally responded.

Not really. Seems competent airline management world wide is in short supply.

Many of today's managers are competent beancounters, but don't know beans about leadership. CEOs like Patterson, Woolman, Kelleher, etc. are indeed in short supply, and I'm not sure that Wall Street even wants such people running airlines today. :(

You guys do know the SLI has been done. The only good to come of the recent CAL lawsuit is the judge overturning the awards and then we do it by DOH. Fixes everything.