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[QUOTE=Airhoss;1675146]
Originally Posted by Moombabeach
(Post 1675118)
You tell me in an earlier post that I need to "grow a pair" if I was to refuse a non APU airplane and that I don't belong in this industry for asking what a CAL guy will refuse a plane for, then come back with this? REALLY? Lets go back to your original reply. If I feel it is unsafe to take a no APU airplane you claim it's because I don't have the balls, how unbelievably adolescent and immature can you get? You the you go on to brag about your big sweaty, hairy, low hanging pair because "I flew turbine airplanes with no APU" BS! This isn't about who's got the biggest balls and who is willing to take the greatest risks QUITE the opposite. It's about making sensible safe decisions even when some management weenie is pressuring you to go. Now as far as the juvenile response to my comments on CRM which are very clearly written and right there in black and white and were predictably taken out of context, disregarding your crew wholesale is a CRM nightmare waiting to happen. let me copy it and put it in bold for thereading comprehension challenged people who somehow misread it. Here it is one more time for the slow people. "A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen." Having a disagreement with a crew member then coming to a logical safe conclusion obviously is not a CRM issue that is what CRM is all about. Leaving that F/O on the dock means to me that the F/O had some serious concerns that we are not hearing about here and the captain completely disregarded them. Until we have the whole unaltered story we won't know. No one can force you to fly a jet you don't want to. Just get up and walk out. |
Since this thread has wandered from the original "throwing gas on embers theme" I'll comment with a useful experience. I had a 757 last summer with inop APU air. It was well over 90 outside and cabin was in the mid 80's when I got on 40 min before push and no pax on board yet. Ground air was on, but as anyone knows, ground air is worthless on a 757 in the south during summer. I approached my FO and F/A's and ramp superv. with a plan to which they agreed. I told the agent to collect every carry-on they might possibly need to gate check- and send them to the ramp. Once that was done, and the belly doors were closed, we started the left engine at the gate and boarded. Cost me like 18 minutes gas at idle, the temperature was comfortable and we got everyone to SFO within DOT. A little common sense and can do attitude made those passengers day, as opposed to taking the opportunity to shove it up mgt's &@#^$. So long as it is safe, I always like to look at these things as if I were riding in back to my granny's 90th birthday reunion.
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[QUOTE=pilot64golfer;1675151]
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 1675146)
Well I got news. If the Captain wants to take an airplane and I don't agree I'm walking. No one can force you to fly a jet you don't want to. Just get up and walk out. |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 1675146)
You tell me in an earlier post that I need to "grow a pair" if I was to refuse a non APU airplane and that I don't belong in this industry for asking what a CAL guy will refuse a plane for, then come back with this? REALLY? Lets go back to your original reply. If I feel it is unsafe to take a no APU airplane you claim it's because I don't have the balls, how unbelievably adolescent and immature can you get? You the you go on to brag about your big sweaty, hairy, low hanging pair because "I flew turbine airplanes with no APU" BS! This isn't about who's got the biggest balls and who is willing to take the greatest risks QUITE the opposite. It's about making sensible safe decisions even when some management weenie is pressuring you to go. Now as far as the juvenile response to my comments on CRM which are very clearly written and right there in black and white and were predictably taken out of context, disregarding your crew wholesale is a CRM nightmare waiting to happen. let me copy it and put it in bold for thereading comprehension challenged people who somehow misread it. Here it is one more time for the slow people. "A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen." Having a disagreement with a crew member then coming to a logical safe conclusion obviously is not a CRM issue that is what CRM is all about. Leaving that F/O on the dock means to me that the F/O had some serious concerns that we are not hearing about here and the captain completely disregarded them. Until we have the whole unaltered story we won't know. Again, having "serious" concerns is meaningless. Doesn't make them legitimate or right. For the "stick it to management" crowd, no realistic level of safety is high enough. And what is juvenile is to take a broad swipe at CAL CRM culture which you clearly know nothing about. |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 1675153)
Since this thread has wandered from the original "throwing gas on embers theme" I'll comment with a useful experience. I had a 757 last summer with inop APU air. It was well over 90 outside and cabin was in the mid 80's when I got on 40 min before push and no pax on board yet. Ground air was on, but as anyone knows, ground air is worthless on a 757 in the south during summer. I approached my FO and F/A's and ramp superv. with a plan to which they agreed. I told the agent to collect every carry-on they might possibly need to gate check- and send them to the ramp. Once that was done, and the belly doors were closed, we started the left engine at the gate and boarded. Cost me like 18 minutes gas at idle, the temperature was comfortable and we got everyone to SFO within DOT. A little common sense and can do attitude made those passengers day, as opposed to taking the opportunity to shove it up mgt's &@#^$. So long as it is safe, I always like to look at these things as if I were riding in back to my granny's 90th birthday reunion.
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Originally Posted by Knotcher
(Post 1675170)
You say that we dont have the story but conclude the FO was disregarded...makes sense.
Again, having "serious" concerns is meaningless. Doesn't make them legitimate or right. For the "stick it to management" crowd, no realistic level of safety is high enough. And what is juvenile is to take a broad swipe at CAL CRM culture which you clearly know nothing about. |
Originally Posted by BMEP100
(Post 1675153)
Since this thread has wandered from the original "throwing gas on embers theme" I'll comment with a useful experience. I had a 757 last summer with inop APU air. It was well over 90 outside and cabin was in the mid 80's when I got on 40 min before push and no pax on board yet. Ground air was on, but as anyone knows, ground air is worthless on a 757 in the south during summer. I approached my FO and F/A's and ramp superv. with a plan to which they agreed. I told the agent to collect every carry-on they might possibly need to gate check- and send them to the ramp. Once that was done, and the belly doors were closed, we started the left engine at the gate and boarded. Cost me like 18 minutes gas at idle, the temperature was comfortable and we got everyone to SFO within DOT. A little common sense and can do attitude made those passengers day, as opposed to taking the opportunity to shove it up mgt's &@#^$. So long as it is safe, I always like to look at these things as if I were riding in back to my granny's 90th birthday reunion.
LiveLeak.com - Engineer sucked into engine aftermath - Warning Graphic |
Originally Posted by CousinEddie
(Post 1675238)
Good planning. I am hesitant about running an engine at the gate for a prolonged period of time though. All it takes is for one person to lose SA out on the ramp. Remember this? Not the first time, won't be the last.
LiveLeak.com - Engineer sucked into engine aftermath - Warning Graphic May he rest in peace. Could be a good reason to use a book procedure or at least a SOP to follow in these situations. And maybe something like not doing engine runs with pax onboard comes to mind. What caught my eye was this comment "A spokeswoman said Monday's incident is not the first such accident. "It doesn't happen very often," spokeswoman Liz Verdier said. "It has happened in the past." |
[QUOTE=Airhoss;1675146]
Originally Posted by Moombabeach
(Post 1675118)
You tell me in an earlier post that I need to "grow a pair" if I was to refuse a non APU airplane and that I don't belong in this industry for asking what a CAL guy will refuse a plane for, then come back with this? REALLY? Lets go back to your original reply. If I feel it is unsafe to take a no APU airplane you claim it's because I don't have the balls, how unbelievably adolescent and immature can you get? You then go on to brag about your big sweaty, hairy, low hanging pair because "I flew turbine airplanes with no APU" BS! This isn't about who's got the biggest balls and who is willing to take the greatest risks QUITE the opposite. It's about making sensible safe decisions even when some management weenie is pressuring you to go. Now as far as the juvenile response to my comments on CRM which are very clearly written and right there in black and white and were predictably taken out of context, disregarding your crew wholesale is a CRM nightmare waiting to happen. let me copy it and put it in bold for thereading comprehension challenged people who somehow misread it. Here it is one more time for the slow people. "A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen." Having a disagreement with a crew member then coming to a logical safe conclusion obviously is not a CRM issue that is what CRM is all about. Leaving that F/O on the dock means to me that the F/O had some serious concerns that we are not hearing about here and the captain completely disregarded them. Until we have the whole unaltered story we won't know. You know that's not what I meant, and you know you meant to belittle CAL pilots, like you always do, inferring an inferior CAL guy would take any broken aircraft. Give it up, the mergers over we are all just airline pilots, nobody cares about the old UAL, it's gone....I don't disregard someone else's opinion when it's valid but this trying to f$@k the company stuff guys like you cling to has got to go, we have a contract, have a senority list, move on and DO your job, provide safe and excellent service and let the crap go...... |
You know that's not what I meant, and you know you meant to belittle CAL pilots, like you always do, inferring an inferior CAL guy would take any broken aircraft. Don't make assumptions, don't attack me and I won't attack you. It's really that simple. |
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