Correct.

The PI's paper bid for pay purposes. So the PI's who get surplussed off the 76T in DEN can simply paper bid for another 76T position in a different base and obtain the same pay. Some however much to the displeasure of management will be able to use this surplus to INCREASE their pay by paper bidding a captain or wide body F/O position. CHACHING!!!

This is part of the reason that our faithful leaders have been holding off on surpluses for so long. I tried to go back to TK several times in the past couple of years. I was told in so many words that reason they won't take me back is because I have captain seniority. And there is nothing the contract to prevent me from taking a paper bid captain position and they don't want to have to pay a PI captain wages at 89 hrs (or whatever it is) plus override.

Looks to me like DENTK is about to have some seriously high paid PI's on their hands. :D:cool: I would guess that 80%+ of the current PI's can hold captain all over the system.

Respectfully, you are incorrect. FIA pay is capped at 9 year FO pay in best held, with a 90 hour guarantee. Essentially, nearly all existing instructors are making widebody FO pay + their override based on their qualifications (UPA Section 23). As far as Evaluators, and other people who were grandfathered in - different story.

Okay,

And what stops them from taking a paper bid on the left seat? Is 9 year 90 hour pay on the 777or the 400 or the 737 Captain not more than the same 90 hours on the 76T? They get paid for what they can hold on paper. Getting surplussed off the 76T allows them to bid those higher paid positions. Is that not correct?

Nothing at all. That's why you see them jumping around on the various vacancy bids, too. Many are 'staffed' on equipment they're not qualified on. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you though.

As long as they're in TK, where they show up on paper has no affect on their compensation. What matters is what they could hold, or more accurately - where someone junior to them shows up. Nearly all the SUP you see staffed as 76T, 320, etc... are most likely receiving 787/747/777 hourly rate ($168-ish/hr) which is the current 9 year widebody FO cap.

Currently, every single 76T instructor has someone junior to them on the widebody pay scale (777/747/787).

The most junior 777 instructor, can NOT hold 777,787,747, but CAN hold 757/767 so that's the blended rate he receives. Clear as mud? :-)

Sorry for the thread drift...

LifeNtheFstLne,

Simple question, if a PI can hold 737 Cap on paper does that PI make 737 Cap hourly rates capped at 9 years at 90 hours plus override?

Negative. Pay is capped at NINE year FO per the UPA.

Never mind..

Ah yes, you're correct... I see that now

So you pose an excellent question then ... How will they handle it?


I guess I don't understand how it can ONLY be on paper?


Just for argument sake, let's say this bump of 30 goes to 10 very senior line CAs (all non PIs) and then 20 very junior CAs (inverse seniority from the bottom) -- 7 of those bottom 20 are PIs and one is on LTA.... So how many are actually going to be bumped?

The PIs are on the seniority list. Does the company count them as part of the 30? Or will they actually bump 38 CAs?

Ahhh man, I had a long response I was eloquently penning.
What threw me with your questioning was you referring to 'PIs'. It wasn't until this paragraph that you quoted the section regarding Evaluators.

Just so we're on the same sheet of music, there is no such thing as 'PI' or 'Standards Captain' anymore. Within the schoolhouse, as it pertains to Section 23, you're either an FIA 'I' (with different levels of quals and/or signoffs i.e. Validation, ETOPS, etc...) which determine your override or you're an 'E' (Evaluator). If you're an FIA - you're a First Officer when you fly and are paid as such by the department. Again, has no bearing on what someone holds on paper or where they show up in staffing. Evaluators are all Captains, and they are subject to the pay and section you quoted.

Both schoolhouses just interviewed and hired a massive number of 'I' only. I'm not aware of any 'E' positions, but there have been several LCA openings in various bases, particularly on the 756/76T.

If I only made things worse with my attempt to make sense of all that, drop me a PM. Cheers.:)

The 'PI' aka FIA do not positively or negatively impact the staffing in a BES. Perhaps not the case in DEN, but in many other bases you'll see them on a BES that they don't even fly in or teach on. My best guess is that if they want 30 people to be bumped from a base, it'll be 30 line pilots + SUP/TI. I've been wrong before. You could always e-mail manpower planning and see what they say.