They told us we won the lottery when we were hired.

They did, indeed. I saw the short film in Sociology Class in high school:

The Lottery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And we were told we would be captains in five years. We were, at Express, after choosing flowback rather than furlough. Not that I didn't appreciate that.

I was too. I left for EWR and a nice line 6 months ago...best decsion I could've made.

Good ole' Nancy and her minions kept telling us how lucky and privileged we were to have been "chosen" by her. I kept throwing up a little in the back of my mouth.

I can still taste it.

Say what you want about Nancy, who passed away 4 years ago. However, there are many former EAL pilots that are grateful to her and her minions for giving them a second chance at UAL. DAL and their minions certainly didn't give them a second look.

I can guaranty Nancy had little to no input on that decision. I would bet it was 99.9% ALPA, and they had to fight to get it.

I am glad they did.

I used to think the HR stuff was a bunch of BS. Working at 3 different airlines in the last 7 years changed my mind.

In hindsight, Nancy and her HR nazis did a great job, at least in my opinion. Their arrogance, however, was breathtaking.

It's your inalienable right to gripe. Bear in mind though that there are pilots here, hired during the Clinton administration, who currently are not lineholders; even in the right seat of the lowest paying airplanes and not all by choice.

I hope your luck and timing in this wonderful industry is better than ours.

Semper Fi.

What fleet and base are those guys in? I have friends hired in the late 90's L-UAL side that had a really rough past 15 years but are currently within the top 10-20 on the 737 out West.

320 F/Os are still hovering around the G line even after 15/16 years in the right seat.

It's probably the Denver Bus guys who couldn't bid into the guppy. Due to all the slots being pre-filled.

And ORD and IAD

Not really in these bases. They would be lineholders on 76T or reserve on 777.

Ahh good call! Many of the guys I was speaking of were DEN bus guys that bounced.

Yes, on the bus in these bases and until recently no real opportunity on the 737.

Yep...17th year and 90+% in base. Living the DEN dream!
https://thisistwitchy.files.wordpres...-shrinkage.jpg

i fly all the time with 15 yr l-ual 320 fo's who are still on rsv in ord

One only has to look at the bus fleet in specific L-UAL domiciles.

15 year = hired in 2000. Not a good year to start. They do not have 15 years on property. These are double furlough types who are merged in with 2007-2008 LCAL hires.

'98 hires on rsv in ORD...trust me

But wait... they "won" the SLI. They were "high fiving" when they saw that they had been merged with 2005 hires despite never being furloughed.

How can this be?

Come on dude...give it a rest. You really have to start instigating?

15 year is misleading since they were furloughed for most of that time. How many ACTIVE years do these pilots have?

Not many in some cases. Flew with a pilot this year who had one solitary month on the line in early 2000 after new hire training and did not enter a cockpit again until Jan 2014. Between the furloughs and FMLA it was 14 years away from the industry.

Here in Denver, we have 17 yr FOs on RSV. 76T fleet. Never furloughed. Hey, how is the DEN-EWR commute? might be joining you soon.

Sled

Late '98 hires were furloughed in Dec '03 & Jan '04 for about a year; back by early '05. Merged with mid '06 hires. So yes, a break in longevity, but re-started accruing it.

Just the facts; not instigating because the SLI is done. Just want to put the cold truth out there.

The bump.......But what abut the bump?

Back on track....snap shot today has SFO 787 F/O's shockingly junior. Over 10,200.

If I remember correctly, if there fails to be enough LCo people bid a category, the fence comes down early?

The cloud of IAH Capt displacements looms heavily over that juniority lasting.

Sorry, I don't quite follow...aren't the IAH displacements just, for the most part, going to bump into another category at IAH? Anyone else bumping has to do so, but can only bump into a category where there is someone junior to them.

I'm not sure how that might affect juniority of SFO. Sorry, but I'm a little slow today.

Not wholesale, but pilots normally fenced out can climb over the fence, so to speak, one by one. Paragraph 6.

5. For a period of five (5) years beginning with the Bid Period in which the ISL is first implemented, or until the carrier takes delivery of its twenty-fifth (25th) B787 aircraft, whichever occurs sooner, no premerger Continental pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B747 or A350 aircraft or displaced to one and no premerger United pilot may be awarded a Captain or First Officer vacancy on a B787 aircraft or displaced to one.

6. Should there be insufficient bidders from one premerger pilot group for any position in the allocated group of positions under paragraph 5 above, the filling of the position will be governed by the ISL. A pilot thereby awarded a position will, for purposes of processing future displacements under the collective bargaining agreement, be considered as junior to all pilots from the premerger pilot group entitled to the position. Notwithstanding the awarding of positions pursuant to this insufficient bidders provision, the restrictions set out in paragraph 5 above shall continue to apply during the terms specified in paragraph 5 above.

That is by choice for some starting in May. There were 19 320 Newhires backfilled into ORD about two vacancies ago. Some of these newhires were actually awarded lines for May in ORD (good lines as a matter of fact).

Some senior guy's might not be able to escape RSV unfortunately, but quite a few are on reserve next month when they could get good lines - maybe they were unaware that they moved up on seniority slightly and still bid reserve.

Sure most will try to bump into IAH and probably Sparkie since alot can't even hold the 777 in IAH. However, I'm sure LAX 787 will go senior amongst the displaced guys as well. I bet a good number of bumped Sparkie guys in IAH will try to stay on the equipment even if it means commuting. The West Coast 787 already has a ton of IAH commuters and when you thrown in 6 months of PS travel, I think a significant number will not go to another IAH BES.

So then you will have some guys in LA who will be looking for a new base. Thus 787 SFO sucks up the excess bumps and the bottom guys there get booted off the fleet all together. Yes the fleet will grow this year, but I doubt enough to cover this snapshot. This assumes they actually do the 200 reduction that they are muttering about. Just the reality I see coming.

I find that hard to believe. It would have been impossible for the person to not accept recall in '07 and remain on the seniority list due to the way that furlough/recall rights were written into the '05 concessionary contract.

It was go down the furlough list, and then when the offer came to you the second time, you either had to accept recall or be removed from the seniority list. Everyone from the post-911 furloughs were recalled. There were a LOT of people removed from the list.

A pilot hired in early 2000 should have ~5 years' total of furlough.

I had no reason to doubt her. Not being at UAL at the time, the mechanics of it were unfamiliar to me, but the explanation (I recall) was that she did accept the first recall (resetting the clock) then immediately went on FMLA due to a pregnancy, then was furloughed again, restarting another clock.

Andy
I dislike the word impossible. Anything is possible and indeed what was described is very possible. I am currently a example of that impossibility you speak off.
Cherio

~
 

?? The scenario you lay out would have involved two FMLAs.
She would not have been furloughed until ~2003 the first time. That would have put her on FMLA for approximately 3 years, from 2000-2003.
The second time, she would have been recalled by 2007 at the latest and not furloughed until 2009 or so. That's another 2 year FMLA.

I confess that I don't know the mechanics of FMLA, but that doesn't match up with what's listed on the DoL website. Family and Medical Leave Act - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

Perhaps Beaver Hunter can chime in and explain how the system can be gamed to allow for 3 years off of work for a pregnancy.

Andy;
You are technically correct about "impossible". But in reality, not correct due to reality. There are lots of MIL leave folks that did take 14 years off. Not in a row. They accepted recall, then took MIL leave upon recall. Some have done it twice now and I have flown with numerous ones. FMLA would be another way.

I wish I were one of the MIL leave guys and stayed away and finished a retirement.

Some double furloughees had 5 or 6 years longevity. Some very little. Depends on when they were hired. I have flown with half a dozen guys that stayed away from UAL for 14 years one way or another. I only wish I were one of them.

Probe, FMLA's a different animal than MIL LV. Even so, MIL LV would require threading a fairly narrow needle. And there was no cheating on MIL LV; I was required to give a copy of my DD214 when I returned in 2008 (accepted recall in 2006 but stayed on MIL LV for as long as I could).

Unless one had applied to return to active duty, the rules were restrictive on how many days you could spend on active duty. It was initially less than 180 days/yr, but that moved to 3 yrs out of 4 on a rolling calendar. If one wasn't back on active duty (just doing Guard/Reserve bumming), it would have been hard to not return on property in 2006-2009 unless you were hired in 2001 or so. Especially since most of us Guard/Reserve bums had already burned a lot of our rolling calendar days while on furlough.