He's referencing UPA MOU 14. Twenty-four month grandfather for the ORD/LAX -400 pilots and SEA 777 pilots. Unfortunately I could argue whether or not the comparison is valid either way.

Yes, except I am not sure it applied to the SEA 777. I agree with you, I could argue either way. Is this what Ben is asking for?

Not sure who did/did not attend IAH town hall meeting. I snuck in there b/c I thought there would be filet mignon for everyone. Disappointed to say the least not even PB&J, but I stuck around to hear what was being said

Summary from Howard, Greg, Beau, and Tracy (scheduling)
With oil down flights into IAH are down some 20%. They are going to shift to that flying to other bases after summer. ORD, SFO, IAD
Each captain displaced equates to 5 training cycles. They value that around 30 grand a cycle so 150 grand per captain. They recoup that after 4-6 months.
Didn't get a specific on number of displacements. Only captain more than f/o. Also they don't want to over displace so IAH may not receive the heft that everyone thinks.

Lots of talk about moral and how SRM was rampant every day. No need to displace due to attrition and vacanccy bids and hiring etc..maybe TDY temporarily or something as I think Den has 320 guys being tdy'd into base after they displaced. Few guys pretty vocal and upset. Even a nice 10 minute one ranging from uniforms to pay stubs.

Howard said something about putting out an email with all info and numbers as they want to be transparent as possible.

That was the majority of it. Minus the steaks.

No idea, but wouldn't surprise me.

I assume that's O&D (origin and destination) traffic. I got grilled here a few weeks ago for stating that traffic would be down in IAH this year and that Houston is in a regional recession. On this thread: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ua...on-answer.html

That big a drop in passenger traffic indicates local recession to me, but others can interpret it how they like. That's more than double the drop in traffic that I had expected.

My sympathies to those based in IAH; uncertainty about one's future sucks. It sounds like they're not planning on doing a 'one and done' displacement; more likely it will be several small displacements. With all of the vacancies, I would anticipate the company to try to attrit out as many excess pilots as possible. Training's running at full capacity so there's no incentive to accelerate displacements. At the same time, since a lot of IAH pilots will try to displace into other IAH fleets/seats, there will probably be limited vacancies in all IAH fleets for a while. Good luck to everyone in IAH.

We're paid to move metal, not solve management issues. Management's looking at this in terms of dollars and trying to minimize costs - they're not doing this just to screw with people. Think of it this way - if they minimize costs, it means a bigger profit sharing check for everyone. (trying to put a positive spin on this)

Howard - I know a lot of people don't like him, but I've always had the impression that he's a straight shooter. I'd rather be told bad news than given a BS story.

Not sure about the SFO/LAX 747 but the ORD 747 closing/opening would have effectively been a FLUSH without the LOA grandfather rights.

The Houston surplus is just that a surplus. A carve-out that gives SUPER SENIORITY is a bad precedence and violates the seniority of all United pilots.

Ahhhh I see. Yeah base closures vs merely bumping. I've never seen the 24 months applied to any regular bump out of a base that still exists, but I guess Ben can try to make an exception to save his own seat. But to get indignant at the MEC and management for lacking enthusiasm in his carve out plan is, well.... I didn't see him getting all bent at the multiple bumps from DEN, ORD, or base closures in SEA and LAX. The whole thing smells. Hopefully the bumps will be minimal. They suck. Unfortunately I know from experience several times

When I get bumped in August of this year off the 757 in Denver it will be bump number 5 for me. 777F/O surplussed to 757F/O to 737F/O back up to 777 F/O surplussed to 320 F/O, upgraded to 320 CA,surplussed to 757 F/O surplussed to whatever is next.

This is just as much a flush as the 747 deal was or was not. It's just one is done to LUAL and the other is done to LCAL. I don't think either should have been given special consideration.

How is a complete closure of one base the same as surplussing a small percentage of pilots in another base?

Simple fact is we are all on the same seniority list and any "Special Deals" negotiated by Ben has an impact on all United pilots regardless of legacy affiliation.

756 ca ewr??

Uhmmm...NOT even close. The IAH bump is just that, a bump they are not closing the entire category within a base. The 747 deal in ORD was complete shut down.

So if Ben gets his special deal in IAH do I get a special deal in DEN when my number comes up? Fair is fair right?

I doubt it...Commuting reserve to EWR.......Just the thought makes me want to PUKE!!

I'd rather baptize a cat.

................

I'd at least like to watch you try to do that!

Also heard that many were vocal about management not working with individual pilots. In fact, management had to remind them that they had to go through the union to get things done, that's how the system works. Just goes to show you that we still have folks that just don't get the "Collective" part of a CBA.

As others have alluded to on this thread....a displacement bid followed by vacancy bid would create fewer secondary bumps. One may displace from IAH 737 CA to ORD 737 CA, and 2 weeks later get awarded IAH 320 CA. If you do the vacancy bid first, and the junior IAH 737 CA's don't bite you could see a bunch of CA's bumping in to the 320 resulting in bumps of those who just got it awarded.

It's not. Displacement are already covered by the Agreement.

This is just political fodder so that some people can claim that its discrimination against LCAL pilots to not give them special consideration, despite 14 categories being displaced affecting predominantly LUAL pilots in the last 3 years with no special consideration. This one where there are only 2 categories affecting LCAL pilots they will claim its bias against LCAL pilots for not giving them special consideration.

Then they will point to the MOU for base closures as the proof, but its not because its a completely different type of event.

You heard wrong. That was due to 1 persons tirade about how he wasn't asked about uniforms and pay stubs. Beau (or Bo not sure) said I like your emotion and you should get involved with union as they were involved with uniform process. His reply was the union doesn't speak for me. (Audible grumbles could be heard)
I don't know the guy but I was there and he was pretty emotional talking about how the company doesn't value our heart etc...I think he kind of misspoke as Beau (or Bo) corrected him saying the union does speak for the pilots. Again he insisted that with his emotion to get involved with the union. There wasn't any side deal talking or what not. I think he kinda got caught up in his moment that he had to have practiced as there were several lines from Winston Churchill in his speech. His whole mantra was the company doesn't ask our suggestions. They just do.
From what I remember anyhow.
I was just passing through. Curious how the DEN town hall will go

There was talk of delays, gate agents, above/below wing delays etc
Denver meltdown from express being one of them.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Was it Ben ?! :D