Have you looked at the flying? Tons of red eyes. I have stayed in EWR for the much better flying and more days off, even with a slightly more difficult commute. Would love to jump to LAX, but that flying stinks.

Where's the deterrent in the equation? If all one has to do to be accepted after scabbing is smile, buy some beer, apologize, and fly a good jet, what's stopping anyone from crossing? Please remember while they are smiling and verbally falling on their sword for scabbing, they took someone's seat who was trying to better the profession. They're reaping the benefits of superior seniority at an airline where they probably would not have been hired under a normal interview process.

Now, back to this massive bid and the hopes of many more to follow.

Well, IIRC, there were pilots at a few unions that didn't allow picking up open time while pilots were on furlough. And IIRC, APA reduced the number of hours per month that lines were built to.

While such behavior (working near max hours/mo) is legal, it's not that much different than what scabs have done. Had UALALPA insisted on less hours/mo, the furloughs wouldn't have been nearly as deep.

As far as the vote on the furlough fund, you and I know that it barely squeaked by.

NO, you can't equate that to a SCAB action.

The SCABS will always be in a undesirables group along with pedophiles, women beaters, rapist, drunk drivers and pilot representatives that push for actions that benefit themselves at the expense of the collective group. No redemption or forgiveness for this group.

The SCABS that were allowed in the LCAL group will always be SCABS but you have to question why they elect to wear that ALPA pin knowing exactly WHO THEY ARE and WHAT THEY DID. It's for one reason only and that's to hide what they did. They could care less about you, your family or belonging.

BenS wrote a scathing letter to returning furloughed LUAL pilots to Houston LCAL. Essentially threatening them for not socializing with SCABS. As professionals, we do our job and deal with the SCABS. the company or a rogue ALPA leader can not threaten our job for not socializing with any undesirable, specifically SCABS.

I must have missed that letter. I've had a couple of long conversations with BenS over an issue and found him very professional and cordial. I felt the same (professional and cordial) when I had conversations with LAX and SEA UALALPA reps.

As far as equating the behavior to scab actions, those that padded their time deprived other pilots of the opportunity to work. There are a lot of parallels. I'm past being angry about that behavior, but it certainly isn't the type of behavior that makes for a strong union.

Edit: let me toss in one more action that I found very distasteful by the union. When the post-BK money was being divided among the pilots, there was an arbitrary date picked and if you weren't on property by that date, you got something like 10 shares of post-BK stock. I wasn't recalled prior to the cutoff date so I got ~10 shares. Delta's pilots included everyone on furlough when the money was divided up.

There is no behavior that can equate to a SCAB taking anothing mans job. You'll never be able to spread enough Fairy Dust to change that.
Judge a man for what he does, not what he says - this applies very appropriately to BenS.

Yes it did. I voted for it. Obviously I was dumb enough not to realize that it would be viewed by guys like you as another slap in the face. Those that voted no obviously knew better than me. Next time I will know better. I'll mark your post for future reference.

As far as APA controlling what lines were built to with guys on furlough.....if your contract allows for that and hasn't yet been trashed in Chapter 11, you can enforce that. One could argue that if APA had taken cuts of the magnitude that UAL did, they could have avoided deeper furloughs at American.

I find it disappointing that you are defending union members putting in a bunch of overtime while there were pilots on the street. I find that behavior reprehensible and scablike. Those pilots were taking away the jobs of those of us who were on the street - you can spin it however you want, but it kept a lot of pilots out on the street longer than they would have been.

There were several other union actions that were voted on that also negatively impacted pilots on furlough but I'd prefer to not dredge up the past. All that thinking about the hypocrisy of those actions will do is anger me; nothing good will come from it.

Can't speak for LCAL, but at LUAL the line value was dictated by the Ch 11 UPA. There was no ability to reduce the # of hours in our lines, and believe me the junior pilots in seats were NOT happy about being flown max hours and min days off. Things got bad enough that UAL was successful in getting an injunction against the pilots for "job actions", including sick leave "abuse".

There was MANY cases of pilots being harassed for picking up open time with pilots on furlough, again met with discipline and threats. I will not confirm or deny being involved in publishing names of "pick up pilots" or leaving notes in V-files. But I take exception to your suggestion that LUAL pilots were happily picking up open time while pilots were on furlough. Most very clearly "got it" and tried like hell to fly as little as possible.

Enough. No mas. No need to continue with the pettiness.

I would have been a LOT more happy with a full share of the post-BK money than any furlough fund.

I get it now, it's all about you. Talk about being SCAB like.....well

What a huge load of BS....your schtick is getting tiresome Staller

Ya, I'd like to see this letter.

Pretty sure that is exactly what Andy is doing! The behavior of picking up open time, time that would have gone to a guy on the street, if it were not for someone padding their check.

Pardon my intrusion, but I'm looking for" Vacancy 15-10A" thread, is this the right place?:confused::)

Jetlink these threads always dissolve into a clown act with Allenalert showing his narcissistic hatred for Ben S and lcal. What questions do you have if any that maybe I could help with?

LAX Guppy trips are typically Red eye transcons.

One of my months (89.5 hours):

4 Day: LAX-SFO-KOA. KOA-SFO. SFO-ORD. ORD-SFO-LAX.

2 Days Off

4 Day: LAX-SFO-EWR. EWR-SAN. SAN-IAD. IAD-LAX.

4 Days Off

2 Day: LAX-MCO. MCO-LAX.

5 Days Off

4 Day: LAX-CLE. CLE-SFO-SAN. SAN-ORD. ORD-LAX.

3 Days Off

4 Day: LAX-SFO-MCO. MCO-SFO-SAN. SAN-IAD. IAD-LAX.

Trips started in previous month (first day), and ended in following month (last two days).

Kona, SAN, and MCO were fun long layovers.

Most recent 4 day trip was:

LAX-SFO-EWR. Long Layover.
EWR-Punta Cana-EWR (Deadhead down, flew red eye back). Short Layover.
EWR-FLL (Long Layover)
FLL-IAH-LAX.

First airline trip to the Caribbean. Mannnnnnnn.......the CA and were JEALOUS of the crew who flew us to Punta Cana! They were an LAX crew also, but I couldn't help but think, "EWR crews do that kind of flying all of the time!" You all pay the heavy price, which is living in the NE during winter. But I got a tease of what your flying is like, and it looks good.

All that being said, this is the best job I've ever had. I know it's not normal to see positive sentiment posted on this forum, but I want to let the folks know who are working their azzes off to get here that it's totally worth the effort.

I'm getting great mentorship from LCAL and LUAL captains alike. In fact, the infighting might be helping us halfwingers a little in the sense there is a sentiment of, "Don't listen to those other guys, let me teach you how to do the job properly." And yes, there are different styles and I'm lucky to learn them all.

As it stands, this is an amazing job and I feel fortunate to be here.

P. S. It's not all roses. I see stupid sh!t daily at work. Still a good gig though.

Hahahaha.....dang, I tried.

Sorry to say I didn't start this current thread drift. It was 2 LCAL guys (Skyflying and Andy) that brought up the SCAB talk. Read a couple of pages back.

I only got involved when Andy told us to be nice to SCABS for unity and he continued to blast LUAL actions during our Bankruptcy and our furlough. Now, you and Andy were glad-handing each other in another thread. Tell me how you came to your one sided conclusion here.

Andy is lual dude.

ok then, how does that make it different?

It is different because you were wrong when you said Andy was LCAL, you were wrong about Bens supposed Letter and you are wrong about most of what you drivel in here.

Thanks for trying!:)

Anyway, looks like you should get some guys below you in LA!

Appreciate that.

Just wanted to throw some facts into the discussion, and provided context for people to understand what "Good" and "Bad" flying is all about.

I'm excited about new hires getting LAX out of training. That's pretty cool. It's also neat to see that I could be 74% IAD 756 FO. Whoa....that happened fast.

Now if I could only figure out PBS! Watched the ALPA "Bidding Below the G Line" video. Hope it works. I'm super junior in LAX. Will find out Saturday morning.

In case any potential new hire has slogged through the bickering on this thread and wants to know, bids are awarded on 0001 on the 18th. I just don't know what 0001 it is. Eastern? Not sure, it's there in the morning when I wake up.

I'll end this with an invitation to share a Guppy study plan for any new hires with a break between BI and sim training. For any non-FMC military pilots.....holy cow, training is no joke. There is an expectation that you already know how to fly airliners.

You are not kidding about the 737 training in Houston.....worst training program I have ever taken. Largely had to train myself...emphasis is on hazing and harrassement rather than training. Hopefully that old-school "harrasment is good for you" culture will be replaced by a healthier one going forward.

Its the best training you can teach to yourself.

Whoa. It is an initial training course, but I experienced zero hazing or harassment. Some instructors better than others but can think of not one who wasn't helpful and knowledgeable. The CBT is main systems teaching method, and using the g flash cards for the system Eval test was weird but worked just fine. Nobody is going to teach you everything in a classroom first. And as a military type you are going to have to study a lot. Never approached any right of passage BS I heard about in 727 plumber training in several places. Show up with a good attitude, do the work, study, cooperate with your class, move on . Not that hard.

Totally missed my point....Hazing and harrassment are unprofessional...that is what I was talking about.

Its central time....the bids have to be published by then per the contract but they are usually in on the afternoon of the 17th. If you go to PBS and CAT awards you can scroll down to your category and get them a little earlier.

I recall an American pilot pointing out post 2002 that AA management had told APA that if they had the 2002 CAL contract at American, they could operate AA with about 1,000 fewer pilots.

No need for you to jump in on this Sleeves, given the contract you operated under that wasn't even the result of the CH11 process.

Good gouge. Thanks!

Still learning. I now know that those two holes in the window frame are pen holders......only because a fellow FO left a pen in one.

DO NOT leave dinner trays on the cockpit luggage rack! You will forget, and it will get messy when auto brakes 3 kick in.

An intercom ding just after level off means it's cold in the back.

"Oxygen, Checked set 100%" is a good cue to make sure the mic switch isn't still in mask. Which it is half of the time.

DO NOT call O'hare ground at South Port. DEFINITELY don't call twice!

Let the jet line itself up with the runway in the wee hours of the morning.

Flaps beat the speed brake. Dangling the Dunlops trumps all.

If you're number one on the radar downwind, you're about to get slam dunked.

Flying fast to get home to LAX early = "Hotel short of 25R at Uniform, you're gate is occupied."

You're never too old to be a freshman again.

Answered your two assertions about hazing/harassment and having to self teach. Addressed both, and disagree completely about hazing. If CBT is self taught then you have a point, but days of classroom instruction on every system are gone.

Not sure what that has to do with guys picking up open time with guys on furlough. At LCAL we did a good job of VRF lines, and mitigating furloughs in other ways. We also had our share of guys flying fat lines and complaining about paying insurance benefits for the furloughed guys. The later were usually scabs or son of scabs.

Yes it is unacceptable....any examples to back up your claim of abuse? I have been on the 73 fleet years and never seen any of it.

I did not intend my post as a slight to the admirable men and women on the 737 fleet (Which there are many). The intent was to warn any newer folks that the Houston training center ( more appropriately the "evaluation center) was not an experience to be taken lightly...come prepared to do battle! To dragon...who still seems to think I need bucking up and a dose of (unnecessary) advice, the 737 is not my 1st fleet at this company, but is certainly administered differently than the others. We should be united as one pilot group, one airline and One training method. Time will sort all of this out I am sure.

pls know that I am united with all of our pilots in making this the best possible work place for our future.
BFD

You said you were Hazed and Harassed! Then you call the people who apparently did this to you admirable? Then you claim you were only evaluated and not trained? Why do you admire the instructors if they abused you? Please give examples of your mistreatment. I am all for getting all of us the best training possible.

That is not what I said at all.....the incidents were dealt with....union called....instructor replaced....done. You can take what I posted at face value, or insert your own bias.

BFD,

Some here are spring loaded to assume that ANY critique, no mater how valid and fact based, is a direct affront to the pilots of LCAL. Roll with it, you jumbonaut brain surgeon you. Just go choke the goose and destroy the airline. ;) :D