intrepidcv11

Still a bit confused at exact details. That said if the only part of the UAL interview process a Commutair guy w/mins has to do is the Hogan crud then this might as well be a flowthrough. And if that's the case this whole thing stinks. They are desperste to lock down disappearing cheap regional feed. Make some beer cans w/the Amazon jets already.

John Carr

Agree with your statement.

The "devil is in the details" as they say.

And this is just the preliminary release of this program, who would be to say that it's "set in stone"?

As in, UAL probably has enough latitude to vary it at their whim.

As in, only (insert amount of time/PIC/time on property here) to be eligible. THEN, at a later date, adjust (either up or down) a specific criteria. Or, must be a CA for (insert time span here) only to adjust up or down?

DAL adjusted the SSP, although not that drastic, but has altered it over time. And the pure "flow" agreements went through adjustments as well.

But to you last point, AGAIN, agree. The 50 seaters are going away, they want them gone. But for now, lets shift them around to cheaper operators till they are gone. Never mind the costs associated with, and the growing pains associated in the process.

From what I've heard, the EMB XR's that UAL took from XJT and gave to TSA CAN'T even be operated in XR mode. As in, the additional fuel isn't available, nor is the enhanced T-O take off power setting. TWO factors that give the aircraft MORE payload capability, especially at hot and high elevation airports. So basically, TSA got planes with additional capability to operate out of say DEN, BUT DON'T HAVE THAT ADDITIONAL CAPABILITY. Also, they didn't get approval for the increased ramp/max landing weights, etc. It was easier (CHEAPER) to simply make the XR's conform to all their current fleet specs and certifications versus do the work of adding the additional stuff.

And maybe Commutair can pull off a quick certification process and get these planes up and running, maybe the can't. But if they CAN'T, who will they go running to to pick up the 50 seat feed they gave to Commutair that they can't deliver on schedule? It's happened before.

Another side point. We can read this board, other boards, talk to our friends, whatever. We ALL know guys (whether mil of civ) that are not only qualified but competitive, clean records, what have you and for whatever reason aren't getting past the computer. Not enough kittens rescued, not enough bingo called at the old folks home, not enough driving old ladies around on their days off, nor enough rushing of the fraternity (job fairs), whatever.

Yet a "career path program" needs to be instituted.........

MasterOfPuppets

Well said. Agree 100%.

BeeWatcher

This is simply a case of United negotiating a cheap contract for feed. To ensure that Commutair could pull this off (and at the same negotiating table), Commutair got the magic honey that will allow them to attract "will work for food" pilots.... United doesn't have a mainline pilot shortage; it has a "cheap" commuter pilot shortage.

John Carr

Can't....quite.......reach......carrot........

Skubajet

Welcome to the club - AA is doing the same thing.

chrisreedrules

This is all about securing cheap regional labor for the legacies. Not about staffing mainline.

The number of pilots coming from CommutAir compared to the vast number of pilots that will be hired by UA is likely a small percent. It isn't like what AA is doing. Although I will be curious to see how the next couple years pan out for the AA flow programs and if they will be sustainable without choking off the cheap regional labor supply.

cadetdrivr

Yup.

Gotta offer a carrot with the low wages to keep the E145s "economical" until more E175s can get delivered.

Once all the moving pieces are in place, UAL will dump the E145s like a hot potato.

GoCats67

This will likely work out as a perfect example to a young pilot of how bad the airlines will screw you to save a penny.

The guys that go to CommutAir now thinking what a great deal this is for them to get an early shot at a major, will likely have the carpet yanked out from underneath them before they ever get what was promised. When mother UA finishes with these 50 seaters and gives 70/76 seaters to somebody else, Commutair will die on the vine and so will the Golden Ticket.

Then those folks will have worked for peanuts (thinking they were getting the golden ticket as a benefit) and be left with nothing but their @!#% in their hand.

Giving the flow right now costs UA nothing, but the need for these airplanes is short and once it is gone killing the whole arrangement costs UA nothing. So, remember that as a pilot starting at CommutAir tomorrow you hold none of the cards!

Don't ever be so naive to count on actually getting the carrot they dangle before they hit you with the stick!!

Atomized

Sure sounds like a flow to me. Fly for CommuteAir for a couple years and make the hour requirement. Don't bust any rides. Pass the Hogan and the drug test and you're in. Unless I'm missing something??