Airline Pilot Central Forums - Contract extension AIP bullet points

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ron kent (Post 2016468)

I would much rather go into sec 6 negotiations with pay rates that already match Delta, not 30-40% behind them. Seems to me it would be easier to fix things with out having to pay for it with our pay raises.

This is a theory I can stand behind and will be something I consider with my vote once I read the damn thing.

I agree that negotiating would most likely be more productive if huge pay raises were off the table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron kent (Post 2016468)

well if it is true that we get a Delta " me too" clause you would not have to worry about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016439)

How is the company paying handsomely? It's a 13% raise add in a down bid because reserve is unlivable and you are talking about a single digit raise maybe even a pay cut to go from RSV CA to WB FO. We will have to live with so much garbage in the UPA for 2 more years plus the 5 for the next UPA. Why don't we start the pain now and by time 2019 arrives we will only have 3 more years of pain left.

The more and more I think about these pay raise numbers the worse and worse they look. In order for me to have QOL I'm down to a single digit pay raise. Unacceptable!

Reserve is no more unliveable than it was the last few years. I doubt anyone is going to downbid NOW that hasn't already done so considering they have been living with the same reserve system.

Turn this down and you don't AT ALL guarantee that reserve improves over the next several years. You just do so without a hefty pay increase.

I already did the math in another post. It's about $30k a year raise per average pilot. Per year. SWA has been in section 6 for 3 years with no end in sight. Let's say it takes 4 for them to get a deal. That's $120k you've given up and you're STILL under the same reserve system

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016463)

Of course 100% won't be fixed but a number higher than 0% will be fixed.

Maybe. Hasn't worked out well for DAL, SWA, or UPS. And good luck if we wade into an economic downturn, a terrorist attack, a crash, etc during the next few years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016475)

I applaud you for your reasonableness. Along those lines, I agree with you that it's very disappointing that reserve wasn't fixed and I'll be curious to hear why.

You've stayed calm in your arguments and even though we disagree I very much respect that your opinion is different. I certainly don't pretend to be right. I hope however we vote on this we all make the right choice

Quote:

Originally Posted by contrail67 (Post 2016479)

well if it is true that we get a Delta " me too" clause you would not have to worry about that.

Keep up please:) I'm talking about sec 6 negotiations after the 2 year extension. The assumption being that we accept this deal and Delta inks a new deal during the next 2 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016475)

I also believe we are in a better negotiating position with decent pay rates in place. I don't believe it gives us leverage, but it gives management less leverage. We are not under any financial pressure to vote in a substandard contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Probe (Post 2016502)

We are not under any financial pressure to vote in a substandard contract.

Are we now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets (Post 2016503)

Are we now?

We are not entitled to anything now. This is a bonus in a way.

In hindsight the last couple of days of me posting, I have criticized those that chose money over QOL by bidding to commute to reserve. Now, they want better QOL.

Most of us chose QOL over money, now we want more money. Including me.

Maybe the logic of both sides is skewed towards what they want.

But I think there are a lot more of me, and we will prevail in the vote. And voting no, doesn't improve QOL for those that commute to reserve. For me, I will chose QOL, and then ask for more money.