Exactly! LCAL did not have a meaningful per day rig so the pairings could be very unproductive, but because there was no meaningful per day rig there were pages and pages of one and two day trips in the 737 bid package. Once we got the rig the vast majority of trips became four days to reduce paying the 5 hours a day. A 3 day trip that ended early on the last day was joined to a 2 day trip that started late on the first day yielding a 4 day trip that paid a min of 20 hours vs the 25 hours the original trips paid with the new rig.

Some liked the old system because shorter trips allowed a great deal more flexibility in PBS line construction and in the ability to drop, trade, and pickup extra flying. Some didn't like the old system because seniority played a big factor in getting the really productive trips (27 hour four days) while junior folks got the 16 hour four day. Now the lines are so homogenized that everyone gets a 20 hour four day, little ability to drops, trade, or pickup, but at least everyone knows they're getting 5 hours per day average. The different systems also had some effect on commutability.

So, as you said, pick your poison.

Because of this,

5-G-1-f-(3) A pilot shall have a minimum of sixteen (16) hours and forty-five (45) minutes free from duty prior to a duty period that contains an ANF, except that:

I wish that had survived into the UPA. I'm not a fan of flying in the morning and then redeye that night.

Completely agree with you on wishing we still had that protection. I can't imagine doing one of those. Knowing my own body I'm sure I'd be to fatigued to safely operate one of those trips.

Agreed about the joke of vacation and training day credit, but I don't think "most majors" have higher than 5. I think AMR even still has the old way of LUAL which was 5 hours a DUTY period. 5 hours per DAY was a huge get for us.

Yep, we (AA) still have 5hrs/duty period. All of our LAX-Hawaii 3 day trips only pay 11 and change... Guys have to fly 7 of those per month vs 5 for delta and United. It blows.

I wish we still had that as well.

However there were enough pilots complaining about having long layovers and the inefficient time away that it got reduced.

Combined with the change to min per day and you have a classic "be careful what you wish for" scenario. The company will figure out what works best for them re $$ and scheduling.

So is the easy answer to combine both?

"Each trip shall pay at a minimum either five hours per day, or five hours per duty period, whichever is greater."

Easy, except you have to get the company to agree to it. :(

Good luck with that.

Don't know why it's such a joke. One week vaca pays 22.75. You'd be hard pressed to make that on the job. Two weeks vacation for a reserve puke like myself pays 86 hours minimum for a 30 day month. A big plus up from 73 hour guarantee.

Training over 5 days pays 3.0 for EVERY day..even off days. That's 90 hours for a month of transition/upgrade, meaning you'll likely take a pay cut when you're finished and go back to the line.

The only joke is PC pay. 3.75 is not enough as there are generally no off days in the training. Should be 5 hours.

I agree about training, 93 hours a month as a newhire? It was awesome!

22.75 hours a week isn't crazy good money. Its ok, sure. But if we're talking about changes we'd like to see, I'd rather have more time off than more money. Give me 4 days paid at 5 hours per day, AND 6 unpaid vacation days per week. Ten consecutive days off is a week's vacation. Not seven. I've got to synch my schedule with the rest of the world, they're not going to change to accommodate me.