Bushmaster09

I know a guy who has been here two years living in south Florida based Miami. My understanding is reserve is the way to go in that base like most. Unlike other airlines, UPS always keeps way more reserves than needed and unless your on the 747 ANC you will likely never work close to what a line holder will. Being from NK they will likely put you in the 767 or airbus so your chances are decent getting the 767, and MIA shortly thereafter if not right away. I’d totally do it if I lived in S Florida.

BoilerUP

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t say that...

Machtransition

Hello,

Could you explain this one for me please? I think you mean through LTD, but I wasn't sure.

FTv3

I wouldn’t say that either.

Doubt it. We are still behind in hiring and the big retirement wave hasn’t even started to kick in yet. That alone should prevent any furloughs. And Since you are starting in the next couple of months, you will have almost 200 behind you by year’s end - by time a recession hits, impacts our operation, and then our hiring, I’m fairly confident you’ll have a good buffer of peeps below you. Last recession we only furloughed 109 and keep in mind that wasn’t a necessity by the company either. Long story. On top of all that there was language put in to C2016 that makes it more expensive (and presumably less likely) for UPS to furlough - forget what specifically but it has to do with the shuffling people around when they furlough. All said and done I really don’t think you have anything to worry about in this regard. What does everyone else think about this?

FTv3

Fully insure your income:

We have a short term disability plan called mutual aid that bridges the pay gap between sick time, leftover vacation time and the time LTD kicks in. Both pay 60-something % of your income but it’s non taxable so it comes out to roughly the same take home amount and goes to retirement (with exceptions). We have a supplemental LTD that covers the Bfund payments you’d be losing while you're out. The AD&D and supplemental AD&D, loss of license insurance, and life insurance for you and your spouse cover the other cases. With the higher FO pay scales here, you can max all these out to get maximum benefit without putting much of a dent in your pocket.

BoilerUP

The Spartans had Age 65, the rapid parking of three-crew aircraft, and the Great Recession that cumulatively led to the furlough.

Never say never, but my belief is that was a unique combination of circumstances and won’t be a factor going forward even in the event of recession due to the looming decade-plus retirement wave.

C2078

Completely inaccurate. At least in MIA, reserves are being worked at a good pace, and unlike most other airlines, reserve in MIA tends to go senior, albeit slightly less than in the past due to guys getting worked more than before.

hammer pants

I agree it’s a tough choice taking a 200k pay cut won’t be fun. You mention furlough as weighing in your decision, while it could always happen I don’t see it as a realistic possibility at either carrier. Like you said you have enough seniority at NK to be safe and with the retirements at UPS you should be safe rather quickly. If it were me furlough worries would be pretty low on my decision list.

As far as seniority goes you will be more senior quicker at NK but I would bet you would retire more senior at UPS because of our retirements. Don’t forget your seniority growth at NK is nearly 100% from growth which is never a sure thing. When growth does slow down over there it will be epic stagnation. Whereas UPS your seniority growth will be mostly retirements which is a sure thing.

Not to sound like an interview but why UPS. What is your motivation to switch? You mentioned always wanting to work for UPS but why? I would like to help with your decision but without knowing your motivation to switch it’s more difficult.

Our domestic flying will be a step back for you. Lots of 3-4 legs nights with 14 hour layovers in crappy hotels. Rinse and repeat all week long. It gets pretty boring and is more about survival than enjoying work.

International is like working for a different airline. Lots of fun layovers, great hotels, and some of the most fun I’ve had in aviation. However that comes at the cost of long trips 12-14 days which is extremely hard on the wife and kids. I’ve heard we have around an 80% divorce rate which is anecdotal but from my experience may not be far off.

lots of variables in your decision. Either way you are in a fantastic position and you should have an amazing career either way.

Machtransition

thanks for the explanation!

FTv3

1. Lots of 1 in and out of the hub night stuff too. Lots of day flying. Sit reserve and don’t get called. Sit hot (airport standby) and doze for dollars. Bid a VTO and try to win a better schedule. Trip trade / drop into better trips. It’s not all bad and most of what you don’t like can be avoided with a little seniority.

2. There’s variety in intl trip length, it’s not all 12+ days by a long shot. Varies by fleet.

2b. Varies by spouse. Many say it works better for
them being gone for long blocks as they are home for long blocks as a result.

3. I recall someone on B&G quoting a reference for around the 35% mark.