Don’t want to fight for trip rig on par with Delta? Fine, but then we should have sit pay…

you know, like Delta…

and no, I’m not going to go apply at Delta because I think it’s better. Not saying you’re saying this, but some definitely have. What’s wrong with trying to make this place better?

You also seem to insinuate that our schedules are just the way they are because of our business model and it’s always been that way. I’m pretty sure our schedules have gone to crap since 2016.

 

I don't insinuate.

What some people call "excuses", others call "reasons". Our network is fundamentally different than passenger carriers, and drives how airplanes and pilots flow through the system. If one wants to actually address an issue within Art13, they have to fully understand the "why" in order to devise multiple ways to address the issue while anticipating and mitigating potential downsides.

Nothing changed in Contract 2016 that made trip or line construction "worse" than Contract 2006. Schedules took a dive in 2018 with implementation of the Solver optimizer, combined with a growing air network that gave the solver more flying to build duty periods containing more segments/block than historical, and duty/rest closer to contractual limits. COVID demonstrated the impact of optimization in spades, and Postal has again highlighted areas that need new or revised language.

Compensation (rigs, etc) is absolutely a way to drive desired scheduling changes, and in a perfect world works in unison with duty/rest and line construction language to influence how the Solver builds trips.

I'm all for using pattern bargaining to help obtain contractual provisions other pilot groups have...but we have to determine what our actual top-line objectives are to determine if their provisions will actually achieve for us what we hope they would.

 

The super long day sits are rough due to the postal flying. No sit pay to encourage scheduling to reduce the sits. Hanging out for hours in our facilities modeled after 1980s truck stops with no access to good food, work out facilities, or transportation.

 

Yep, I battled them on this recently. They maintain it’s all contractual so until we get new language not much we can do. ER’s are your only friend.

Big 3 have hired so many youngsters in the past 10-15 years that jumping ship doesn’t make sense for anyone approaching the gray haired years or older. Sure you could have upgraded in short time but not into anything good (for most people). The seniority progression that goes with it is pretty dismal too. I don’t think any of them are currently hiring and they days of floodgates being wide open are long gone so moot point anyway.

FA’s aren’t the main pita factor with pax flying, it’s the passengers: problems boarding and in flight, crowds at terminals, security, etc. Cargo is just much easier: vans to and from planes, security 100x easier, fly in casual clothes or PJs, private galley, don’t need an act of congress and a military mobilization to take a leak, etc.

It’s true we are working more for the same pay…as compared to pre-optimizer days. Big 3 still have a lot of base trip like skeds, red eyes. I’ve seen skeds of friends doing domestic over there - not necessarily the holy grail some are making it out to be. SWA is another example of guys grinding it out.

Boiler knows his chit and is spot on. Article 13 needs to be updated to reflect current scheduling practices. Until then, stop waiving the contract. Stop giving them favors: they ain’t helping us out, ever, (they, in fact, are doing the opposite) so why help them?!? Tired of Tonia’s antics - travel as scheduled. ER everything. But don’t become a hostage - that “professionalism mirror,” in SDF is nothing but an indication they are looking for targets.

We are also in the thick of negotiations - ups ramps up the pressure (does things to phiss us off) to rile up the group so we lose confidence in our EB and NC. Standard playbook. Once the TA is signed that starts to fade away - it was palpable within a month after C2016 was signed. Keep the big picture in mind. You want the moac, then act like it.

 

Enlighten me since I don’t fly postal. Are they denying day rooms? Or is there another problem going on?

 

long sits (5+ hrs) coupled with block times around 7hrs (12hr+ duty days) then min rest layovers. Places like RFD and PHL won’t give you dayrooms since not required by contract and they have enough for everyone during day. RFD is particularly miserable.

 

4:56 min sit in EWR. Day room? Denied.

 

so what do you do during the sort after getting the next leg setup? Any option to take a nap anywhere?

 

yes. There are sleep rooms. That’s why they can’t get a day room under 5 hrs. Some gateways use the term sleep room very loosely. Like the closet at IAH

 

The solver is exactly what I was getting at. You’re correct that there was very little language change in 2016. My point I was trying to make is that simply blaming our network and the way we operate as the sole reason our schedules have deteriorated is incorrect. You never mentioned the solver until now. That is the biggest reason for our schedules being worse than before. It has nothing to with “how we operate”. I think anyone who comes to UPS knows how we operate, or at least they should.