I have seen the scheduled flights have as little as 35-40 minute connections in ATL and CLT. You would never schedule something that close deviating, but they do it without a care.

There is no way that time would work at either airport

 

Agreed. I’ve received late arrival pay due to poorly scheduled commercial travel. I made sure scheduling arranged a hotel rooms, trans to and from, and logged the late arrival pay. The only languages this company speaks are money and boxes not moving.

 

So your argument is because we have the postal contract now, the second extension was good? Weird… You’re saying the EB can predict the future or just got lucky?

Also, nowhere in the slides does it mention having to wait for the locals to finish. The slides also don’t mention holding off on negotiating because of a drop in block hours, but that’s a convenient argument now. If I’m missing it, please show me where it is.

 

I understand that you & others believe in our EB & feel a need to defend them. I believe in them too. I just also believe they are capable of making a misstep now and then. The rationale that’s being used to defend the extensions is flawed. By your rationale, UPS, at any time, could come up with any excuse not to negotiate and we would just have to live with it. What happens if our current negotiations run into the next teamsters negotiations? What’s to stop UPS from simply saying that current economic conditions are too volatile for them to negotiate future contracts? Don’t think for a minute that this company wouldn’t string us along indefinitely if they thought they could get away with it. Ask an ex Atlas pilot what it’s like to work under a ten year contract while the company refuses to negotiate. We know for a fact that this company does not bargain in good faith. Doing anything other than holding their feet to the fire & demanding full negotiations the minute our contracts become amendable is offering them a gift. The only thing UPS understands is hardball. They play it with us all the time. The only option for us is to play hardball right back.

 

I'm saying Postal puts us in a better position to negotiate now than the post-COVID drop in volume positioned us to negotiate in late 2022 and early 2023.

Look at the gap between "Teamsters Contract Expires" and "Projected Teamsters Completion". What do you think that five month time gap signifies?

In Video 1, this point is discussed starting 13:50 thru 17:04.

Extension 2022 was TA'd before the block hour drop that started in Q3'22. While COVID peak ops tempo was never going to be sustainable, the timing and rapidity of the volume (nee block hour) drop wasn't something anybody knew.

Our negotiating position is strengthened when block hours are up and staffing is constrained, vs. when block hours are down and we are overstaffed. Nobody is clarvoyant, nobody knows the future, all people can hope to do is prognosticate based upon their experience and make the best decision with the information available at the time.

If you don't think one or both of the extensions were a good idea with the benefit of hindsight, you are welcome to that opinion. I'm happy to discuss or debate based on my observations, knowledge and experience but in the end my world doesn't change if others happen to have opinions different than mine.

 

Bro did you quote the right person? You are making the exact argument as me! And by the way … the way I understand it is the teamsters contract comes up in August of 2028 so I could 100% see the company asking for another extension given that we have only been in negotiations for a touch over a year. My entire point is UPS doesn’t hire people it sees as substandard (although they do in reality). To say they were only going to send the “B” team is silly and likely legally probably not correct. Had we not signed the extensions we would have a new contract by now. Will it be better or worse because of the extensions? Who knows. Again water under the bridge, now we just need to focus on the future.

And unlike the BandG I totally respect the opinions of Boilers and others here. I just disagree on this

 

No, I quoted Boiler but somehow APC put your post in instead. You & I see eye to eye on this. I also agree that Boiler makes some great inputs here & I generally have a lot of respect for what he has to say. Suffice to say, we will all see the best result by providing the EB and negotiating committee with whatever support they require going forward. My argument is that any talk of extensions in the future (no matter the excuse from UPS) should be a non starter.

 

Pardon my assumptions and I’m not trying to be confrontational but it sounds like you’ve never worked in a corporation (non pilot), or have particular depth of insight as to how upper level management works.

There are decision makers and non decision makers when it comes to billion dollar decisions like employee CBA’s, acquisitions, etc. More importantly there are typically only a few of these people. If these few individuals were tied up with a much larger project (teamsters) company would have sent the non decision makers to sit in their place. Sure, it might have been somewhat productive but realistically not. This B-team satisfied their legal requirement to negotiate and nothing more. Think sudoku puzzles. Waste of everyone’s time. It ain’t bs, it’s how corporate America works.

Again, there’s been no supporting evidence that this is incorrect, only that “it’s bs,” / an ‘I know better,’ mentality.