If it weren't allowed the same six tedious loons would probably try to decertify the union.

I'm surprised they haven't had the B&G shut down over the rest of us having been given the option to filter out their relentless political twaddle. I guess that's not as offensive since they just drag their politics into every other thread.

Not entirely on topic, but what are the rough numbers for mandatory retirements over the next 5-10 years? Just wondering how long it would take to build some seniority/job security based on no growth.

Ballpark of 550 mandatory retirements 2026-2023 and 1270 mandatory retirements 2026-2035.

Our average retirement age the last 5 years is about 62.5, so the above numbers are likely to be 50%ish higher.

One thing to remember in the whole retirement scheme. Each of us can only retire once. So the 50% higher number due to not going to mandatory age subtracts from the projected number in future years :).

Speak for yourself! I plan to retire several times. One pension just ain’t enough:D

:D...........

I think a-lot of us would enjoy a separate section where we could interact with the retirees but otherwise have the forum access be restricted to current union pilots.

Many of us value retiree opinions, as they have lived this life far longer than most of us. They paid their dues so should be allowed to participate on the forum.

Then we wonder why we are destined to repeat the mistakes of the past...

Of all the dumb things I've read on the b and g, eliminating or restricting retirees may be the dumbest.

That of course does not take into consideration anything BK posts. He'd set that record on a daily basis if counted.

The retirees can and do say many things on the Bar & Grill that a current line guy could get fired for. They are highly useful to pass information without retribution from the company.

Should folks that leave before retirement be allowed to stay on the B&G too then? Like, say, someone who left to fly for Netjets at 62? Or what about someone who left for Delta at 45? Or someone who left for FedEx after being here for less than a year? All these folks have valuable experience too…

Sure why not. It’s not an anonymous forum so there’s accountability. I’m thinking very few of those folks would participate anyway.

You're being disingenuous. You know full and well that is not an apples to apples comparison.

Yeah, retirement vs. resignation isn't exactly a fuzzy line.

IPA seems to be in danger of going down a dark road as the trouble makers of yesteryear are gaining traction among newer members. They were sufficiently suppressed for many years by a very educated pilot group. That seems to be shifting.

This push to eliminate retired members from participating is the next step in that process.

we are missing the forest looking for a tree. In the gran scheme of things, I believe most IPA members are tired of the same 2 retirees coming up ganging up on anyone who has a different view. I enjoy the input of most the people who are retired, heck most of them are chill as heck on the BG.
then there’s our infamous BK whom I have no clue how he still has a job. The guy is a total disgrace to our group.
The solution is quite simply really, a block button, and heavier moderation.
the one dude yesterday stating that we make more than delta? I mean really? Yes, he’s a data guy and, and he might be correct in the long run, but come on man. It’s giving the company a foot to stand on during negotiations. Stuff like that needs to maybe be moderated more. That’s why it’s always been said, “don’t negotiate in public”.
why BK is gaining traction is due to the fact that the IPA, like any other union, have members that differ in opinions.
I’ve flown with guys who want home basing. Others who want that other type of bidding —for the love of me I forgot the name— , or tons more money cus UPS will never enforce article 13 language.
it’s okay for people to rally behind others who differ opinions.
to me a simple block button or a report button would be beneficial when attacks are becoming personal.
JB attacking a line pilots flight, in a public forum? Really? Why? Why is this allowed? What is the relevance of a IPA pilot that pays dues that has 1 flight that’s in the opinion of a retiree not good, beneficial to us as a group? Why isn’t that moderated? Why is that dude JB given total authority to just disparage anyone who doesn’t drink the IPA cool aid?
then there’s the guy that for everything has to make every post political. FFS man, he needs to go to away already. He seems like a sharp man, has valuable input but has to make everything god damn political. That’s the stuff that needs to be moderated and these people warned to stop or go away.

https://i.imgur.com/N0CmoP5.jpg

Its much better than having our dirty laundry aired 'anonymously' in public here on APC, though.

....what was this thread originally about, again?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA dude well played. I’ll show myself out.

Disagree. Let IPA members read what they please and figure it out. We are a smart group and the majority has proven we will almost always separate fact from BS.

I hate reading some of that stuff too, but beefing up moderation is a slippery slope and should not be the tool that is used.

How do you define that? Someone who leaves early has also "retired" from UPS. Doesn't matter if they take a job somewhere else.

One of the "retired" posters took the VTP before 60, the normal retirement age per contract. Does that mean he resigned?

It is defined by retirement from UPS, vs. resigning from UPS.

Mandatory retirement age is 65, contractual "normal" retirement age is 60, contractual "early" retirement age is 55.

Very simple. Is the person still collecting a check from UPS?

Okay. You’re vested after year 1. So someone who quits sometime after that will eventually get a check.

Will they will be considered retired once that happens?

You're just being difficult to be difficult. None of this is complicated.

In fact the rules are already in place and they're good. None of this debate is necessary.

Not being difficult, just trying to provoke thought.

What if someone who “resigned” instead of retired could post about the real world plus/minus of their current job. Would that be more beneficial than the “retirees” who post more of the same we always hear?

Right now, most retirees who post, excluding #geezerlivesmatter and Pic about money, believe they possess some earth shattering information and view points. It’s really just more of the same and a continuation of when they were employed. Guess what, we still deal with the exact same things so it’s nothing new.

I don’t believe the ones who continually disparage or condescend current members should be given free rein. Everyone is an adult and can read posts make their own decision without input form self proclaimed grand poobahs refuting everything under the sun.

Why input on an election? EG explained the healthcare, which is really the only item that applies. Then again, wait until a TA comes out and they tell us how to vote.

It would certainly be healing to the Stockholm syndrome the older people have. A reality check that this isn't 2001 or 2009 anymore.

This was the whole point I was trying to make yesterday. Why give the company ammunition? Especially in negotiations!!! Every time I hear this crap I shake my head. When I’m flying with someone I try to tell them to stop arguing against themselves. Why do the company’s job for them? For the life of me I don’t understand why people would argue against getting absolutely everything out of this company that we can.

Also don’t be so quick to disparage BK, his delivery isn’t always perfect but I like the fact that he challenges the status quo. Hardly anyone else does and if they do they are immediately set upon by the old guard. I support the EB and their decisions even when I don’t agree with them. Point is BK at least keeps people on their toes and shakes things up a bit

Literally nobody has made that argument.

Maybe not you but when you post online that we are making more than Delta that is exactly what you are saying. Maybe not your intent but the UPS negotiating team is absolutely taking that to the table and using it against the IPA. If you don’t think so you are out of your mind.

If you think BK is a disgrace for pointing out all our many deficiencies, well, you will probably settle for a subpar TA. His delivery method can definitely use some refinements, but he is bringing to the surface many valid points. Many brown nosers in our B&G.

I flew with BK from ICN to CGN, so I had over six hours to chat with him. I will say, he really knows his numbers. His presentation on B&G could be stronger, but it feels like the same group of retirees keeps egging him on. But hey, good reading material when I'm on the toilet.

If you think BK is a disgrace for pointing out all our many deficiencies, well, you will probably settle for a subpar TA. His delivery method can definitely use some refinements, but he is bringing to the surface many valid points. Many brown nosers in our B&G.

tuche on the screen name! However I only brought up BK cus of his personal attacks on people. Specially on a public forum. Some of these personal attacks are too much. That’s just weak. As far as his take on ipa and ups, I agree, the guy has compelling points, and many have Merritt.
that being said I would never disparage a fellow IpA brother or sister in the name of a new contract, you got beef with a person do it face to face and be a man about it. Many people have tried to confront him via text or email and what a surprise, he never replies. Can’t imagine how much he would coward if another pilot he’s insulted actually goes face to face with him. He’d prolly poo himself.

Valid points.

You think the UPS negotiators are getting new found information from a B&G poster?

It is repeatedly brought up that management reads it and uses contrarian opinions against the NC during negotiations.

BK is an absolute disgrace. While he does on occasion make a good point, the majority of his complaints lack context and intentinally misplace blame. In other words, he's agenda driven.

How he interacts with others is an embarrasement. Willing to slam and attack guys he knows nothing about simply because they don't agree with every point he tries to make. Zero debate, just attack.

Is there a particular reason you quoted me then spoke of BK?

The two posts you quoted are not related.

You were not meant to be quoted. Not sure why that happened.