August classes
 

CJOs have gone out

I received the 20 August class, Tuesday start. Does that typically indicate narrow body fleet and primarily US flying, or does that decision get made later in the process? I've heard that the heavy classes usually start on Monday. I am good with any fleet and any base, just wondering what the process is.

It appears you will be in a light twin (75/76, A300) class. I don’t believe there are any Z slots remaining so other than Canada or Mexico you will probably be purely domestic. If on the 75/76 you may be able to bid over to Z in the next system bid. Possibly as early as this fall. Seat lock is 18 months, but applies only to type not domicile.

Probably better off humping it on domestic for a few bit periods before switching the Z so you have some buffer below you.

Somebody has to be the plug. Why not a bright eyed, bushy tailed newbie?

Only gotta be junior once...

Thank you for that info, really appreciate it tnkrdrvr!

Yeah, getting the experience will be nice after not actively flying for a little bit!

Anyone else on here in the August class? Is there a WhatsApp group yet? If not, I can start one up. I know 2 others that are in the light twin class with me.

August 19 class date here. Anybody else?

Drop?
 

What was the 19/20 drop?

seniority
 

How much reserve does a junior pilot sit on the SDF 75Z vs the SDF 75?

bout them same. You are going to be doing domestic coverage regardless.

Reserve is different here. It really varies bid to bid and by fleet, time of year and other factors. Sometimes it's very senior, sometimes it's not. Point being, it's not like most places where the bottom is all on reserve and there is a seniority target range to "get off" of reserve.

Also, seniority progression at the bottom is more rapid on Domestic (SDF) compared to SDFZ.

Movement on the Z is much slower than domestic, it's one of the two most senior FO seats in the company. I've got friends at the bottom of the Z FO list that have been on reserve for well over two years, whereas their domestic classmates are around 65% flying week on, week off as lineholders. As a bottom 10-15 Z guy, the only advantage is you could hold base lines and trade them away (with a certain amount of luck) for longer international trips.

Not really. Z reserve will take you a lot to Canada and Mexico with a bunch of hots (airport standby) thrown in. You’ll also get international stuff especially if you have longer blocks of call days. It’s not like domestic call but there’s some of the same type of stuff.

This is accurate! On the L seat side, 30 below is the bare min to have a palatable experience as you can get into the VTO and VTORs, avoid reserve and BTLs.

Other advantages of going domestic vs staying bottom Z are seniority based: better vacation awards, can bid for decent trips that give you the days off you need, holidays off more easily, conflict bidding. Domestic is also getting more and more day flying. Definitely not all doom and gloom.

how much day flying is expected with the new USPS contract? If you had to throw a % on what a domestic line holder would do… 40% day / 60% night…

how long is seat lock too?

UPS doesn’t release operational info like this to anyone so only clues are in the bid packages which have been showing more and more day flying (at least on 75 domestic-all I’ve paid attention to). I’m still on Z so can’t give more specifics. Next bid period is when all the remaining postal volume comes onboard and then it will take a few bids for optimizer to fully ruin it so probably won’t have a good answer to that for about 6 months or so.

Day flying is nice for the circadian rhythms but that are often long days, with flow, 1 million frequency changes, reroutes, etc. Nite flying is a lot easier in some of these aspects!!

Correct.......if you have an all day flying line........u will be literally flying "all day." They r long duty periods.

Far too early to say, as mentioned above we don't see the full weight of Postal until October 1st. Then we get into the four-week November bid which is followed by Peak, so we really won't have a normalized idea until the bids for February-March come out.

Postal has and will result in much more 2nd Day Air flying (some of which is "pure day", some of which has been integrated into additional morning & afternoon turn trips) but bottom line without rose-colored lenses is one will fly nights here, regardless. Amount of day flying one will see at a given juniority will depend entirely on their bidding considerations for a commute.

18 month newhire transition freeze between equipment; can change domiciles on same airplane (ie. ONT 757 to SDFZ 757, ANC 747 to SDF 747) during that transition freeze.

Thank you for all this great info! Im just trying to figure out which fleet to select depending on the drop next month. Looking forward to getting started there, planning on moving in domicile.

I don't know how it will work for you guys over at Brown, but personally, at the other color, I'm not an enormous fan of day flying if I have to hub turn.

For us, you could be arriving at the hub fairly early from one of the close cities, say around 9 or 9:30 in the morning and then you could potentially sit there until 4pm-ish or so. Some of the west coast flights get in later and leave earlier, but you could have some really long sits in the hub during the day, compared to just a 2-3 hours at night (when the potential is there to sleep).

I live in base, so I don't mind day flights here and there, but I'll pass on a week of hub turns of them.

Plus, like others have mentioned before, there's weather, much more traffic, delays, more guys b**tching about rides constantly, more frequency congestion and WAY more meowing on Guard.

I actually don't mind nights. And the junior guys at my company that complain that they hate it because the day flying is gone...well, I'm also quite junior and I knew going into my company that our primary operation is night and has been for 51 years.

And at any time, you could be rotated to a night or two to fill some operational need and then switched back to your original day flying schedule again. Gotta love circadian swaps with 12 hours of rest in the middle of a day trip, not fatiguing at all...

Saturday I went to my kids football game at St X. I saw 7 MD-11s land in about 90 minutes between 11AM and 12:30. In addition to the MD-11s. I witnessed 3 Airbi and 1 76. Bid the MD-11 if you want to see the sun on a weekend.

It's not the 12-hour layovers that kill you. It's the 24-hour ones.

This is a fact above. Thankfully our outfit switched to 32-hour layovers which does create superb rest and other opportunities. Granted if there are trip delays and it might affect my schedule negatively having a 32 sitting in between, I sometimes entertain a 24 to keep things desirable. On the flip side if the loss of the next leg is a plus, then let the chips fall where they may. Trip strategy over time is a thing at our outfit. I do appreciate the 32s...

our day flying schedule is just like yours. Fly into SDF around 9:30 am and sit till 4 or 5 pm and head west. I prefer night flying myself as the days are shorter.

This type of flying overall sounds horrible, but then again it does sound like both sides have flying opportunities they prefer and able to attain it so that is a win.

Sounds good to me. Get in, quick nap, go to gym for a workout, lunch and off you go.

also not terrible if you live in domicile. You can do all of that at home!

I enjoy them. You can either take naps, hit the gym, and eat lunch (not in an airplane) or fill those same hours flying two additional legs for the day.

Where's this gym you all speak of? The only time I've found these ridiculously long sits not to be painful is in DFW when you get a day room.

it makes for long days. I just finished a week of day flying and I am more tired than the night sort stuff. I can usually catch a nap and relax before my next leg during the sort turns. The great part is, our schedules have something for everyone.

still waiting to see how the mail contract affects our schedules..

As I read through down some comments above, just got curious about asia trip packages..

Understood Z side flying means international at UPS.

Is it usually consisted of 10-14 days of trips flying only in asia region?

Starting and ending trips in Aaia by reposition?

How senior so do you usually have to be able to pick it up?

Let's say I am a 74ANC pilot but acuatlly live in one of Asian country, does UPS let me deviate my first deadhead trip to day 1 workplace from my acutal home instead of showing up to ANC for a deadhead to work?

Not only Asia. Europe as well, with plenty of Canada, Mexico and domestic.

Varies by fleet/seniority. Not difficult on 74 and deviation is definitely allowed e.g. you live in HKG, and first leg is DH from ANC. You would just show to fly in HKG on the day your trip departs. Same if your final leg is a DH from HKG…you’re finished early, but paid for the extra day.

Fully understood. Thank you for your explanation.

What if I live in HKG, and my first leg is DH from ANC to NRT, just as an example.


Company put me on a company metal or commercial flight from HKG to NRT as well if I request a deviation?

For clarity, Z is 75/76 International based in SDF.
The 74 has 2 bases, ANC and SDF.

I am on a 2 week Z Asia trip now.
Started with DH from SDF to ANC.
Then DH to ICN.
I finish with commercial back to SDF.


The company will schedule you as listed in the bid for the trip.

If you deviate, you are on your own.

If scheduled to DH, you are free to list yourself an alternate route to get in position, but your priority may get bumped.
If the plan falls apart, you will not get disciplined, but will not get paid.
Not advisable to miss shows during first year probation.

If scheduled for a commercial, you can have travel make alternate plans with fare price restrictions.
if this plan falls apart, you are not protected.

The first question you will be asked if having travel/commuting issues wil be "are you traveling as scheduled?"