Easy on him, even though he has been wrong more than any other person online in the history of the internet, and will never admit when he is wrong, he is an IPA guy and we need to bring him back into the fold. "Embrace the perpetual suck" is the new slogan at UPS and its much better than "we are problem solvers"! But we embrace the suck together!

Between him and UPSPilott (who claims he has a DL class date on another thread) we may well be doomed...if we lose those two, who will be left to snivel and whine about not being captains just because they are them?

I don't know that I could go on.:eek:

What is ultimately your point? I don't think anyone has been saying this is a great place to work. UPS is UPS. They haven't changed their tune since long before I got here. UPS loves to fight with their labor.

Is your point to get the Nay Sayers to collectively hold their breath like the disenfranchised until UPS does things their way? Kicking and crying over everything until the ultimate feet stomping breath hold? Or do you do the right thing....abide by the contract in "no waivers no favors", and get off the jet when the contract is being violated?

If pilots coming to UPS are so smart, so industry astute, how do they not know the age/hiring demographics of UPS before getting here? Educating themselves of reality and choosing before they get here rather than getting here and holding their breath? Now they whine and complain about (in their view) no possibility of upgrading and they should compensated. One guy says he was told THREE YEARS to captain upgrade in his interview. And coming from an ACMI carrier. Really. An ACMI pilot coming to UPS.....first doesn't know the age demographics of the UPS pilot group? Or knowing it he/she doesn't care....because they are leaving the ACMI world to come to UPS? I'd say the latter. They were all too happy to come to UPS. But now they want to be compensated because UPS lied to them.

If UPS said twenty years to upgrade, most all would have still left the left seat of the ACMI world. Not all. There are a few who's ego is bigger than their need for stability and bigger paycheck. At least they are honest. Staying as a captain is more important to them. Their call.

The concept of, "oh.....I didn't know! Or, UPS lied to me!" Whatever. Falls on deaf ears. They are assumed smart enough to have done their own homework.

I can understand someone not fully understanding the realities of coming to a combative company. But UPS has had for decades a very public persona of being combative to their labor unions. This ain't no social club. And 2, 3, 4 or even 5 years after they got here, were perfectly welcome to leave when legacy hiring started. They could have gotten in on the leading edge of the hiring elsewhere. They got a taste of UPS management and had the freedom to act as they see fit.

But this entitlement attitude of what they now, "deserve" is destructive. Fixing the fo pay slope at the expense of retirement a long forgotten binding of the Union as a group.

What is your point? Continue to hold your breath? Get everyone to hold their breath? Do you think you are pointing out things that, "elder statesmen", haven't dealt with for decades?

Any job is what you make of it and nothing is ever going to be perfect. Anywhere. UPS doesn't owe you or I anything. And none of us will know until we retire if we made the right decision. And it's always the right decision at the exact moment you make it. History (retirement), might show otherwise. But the decision was the right one in coming to UPS at the time you made it. And if it's a, "mistake", then leave. Simple.

As an afterthought in closing, UPS would most of all want to engage their labor groups emotionally. That's a victory for them. You get emotional, then you make mistakes. Then you get fired. Score 1 for UPS labor. Every single day is another day of negotiations at UPS. And if you get emotional about it, they will eat you alive.

First off, you need to switch to decaf or find a way to lighten up a bit. Seems to me your the one that is getting emotional. Before you said you knew me and flown with me; but as a professional, leader, friend you didn't reach out to me in a PM, phone call, email and talk to me about these issues that obviously bother you?

You are quick to acknowledge that this place has flaws and your solution is; don't like it leave? I would expect a similar statement from some on these forums but hoped that a man of your intellectual thought, based on your writing since that's all I got to go by, could do one better.

Hit me up next time we fly together and I will answer any question you have as passionately and objectively as possible, but excuse me while I don't take the bate here and get involved in a worthless discussion about what a great place this is to work at, but continue to remain optimistic, that this place can change for the better and have a lot of ideas on how to make that happen.

Shaggy

There's not much of my post that was directed at you; even as I used your quote as the basis of the post. I don't put you in the sniveling entitled group. Which is what most of the post concerned itself with.

What caught my eye was how in effect the naysayers had completely missed the mark after decades of dealing with UPS that was being painfully pointed out to them now. That they had somehow not seen the truth of UPS after years of getting kicked in the jimmys. And that now they were seeing the truth that they had been missing all along.

The next year or so of heated negotiations will hopefully show just how much the, "elder statesmen", have not been blind to jimmy smacks. Because UPS hasn't even begun to ramp up their real version of jimmy smacks. And the naysayers/elder statesmen might appear a little different as they sum it up as ops normal for this place and go about doing their job. UPS has even started the negotiations nonsense; ie, it's going to get much worse.

I didn't like the inference that the naysayers/elder statesmen didn't know what UPS was all about.

People will need to know what, "no waivers no favors", in the coming year means. Some are acting on that premise today. And they are standup guys.

Unity is Strength!
 

.

More unity here would've been nice.

Half-full or half-empty, senior, junior, happy, miserable or just content, we're all in this together.

Being a half-full person - maybe the FDX - TNT deal is good for us all? Fred probably wants to get support from his pilots in this deal because surely there'll be some road blocks and he'll need them all to step up and pitch in when unexpected situations arise. Maybe they'll stop harassing their pilots as much (ie, sick calls, unrealistic airfares, etc.?) and maybe they'll get better CGN and HKG stipends and conditions? Some other improvements? Who knows? If Fred wants their support he might give in and let them have a contract before ours? That'd probably help us?

Either way, this might be just wishful thinking BUT we need more unity here. Amongst our own AND amongst our groups, fdx and ups.

Everyone should stay informed on the negotiations and we all should watch EB's video updates! We can't be asking for improvements if we're willing to foresake what we already have. No special deals just because it helps "you," no waivers, no favors. Be professional, courteous, knowledgable and follow the contract! No more and no less!

They're working very hard for us all. The least we can do is to show more unity.



.

Whalesurfer,

Overall we are very unified IMHO. There are a few that feel entitled. I think you can count them on fingers and toes. There's always that 1%.

Hiring has resumed at UPS. Of course not without a fight. Ops normal here.

108% IPA good day.

Thanks for the good news FlyPhisher!

.


Thanks, just found out. I agree with you on our unity; the hiring announcement is great news indeed!

108% IPA!

.....
Delay Over; UPS Resumes Hiring
Vacancy Bid to be Posted Today

Today UPS announced that it would proceed with the hiring of the pilots who were originally slated to begin training at the end of March and April. New class dates will be set for the end of April and the end of May.

“This is the right decision for UPS and the right decision for the pilot group. The IPA Executive Board applauds UPS in making the decision to move ahead with hiring these crewmembers.”

A bid will be posted today which will allow IPA members to bid these new positions. Unfilled positions will then be assigned to the incoming new IPA members.

Fraternally,

IPA Executive Board

Some posts deserve a Father's Day bump...