The pay rates are of little interest to me, it's not the first, or even close to, thing I go to look for in the proposal. After you posted your screen shot it did become clear to me that there are at least 2 versions of the pay tables on the negotiations website - I remain unimpressed by either.

I am also unimpressed by the lack of clarity from APA. That's what happens when you respond to managements desire to rush something through.

If you strip out the pay rates, then look at the JCBA, it is useless.

I am not blinded by money, but I do see that the pay rates in the JCBA are incredibly bright and shiny; based on that alone, anyone who knows anything at all about Doug and his team should run like hell away from it.

There is no such thing as a free lunch with Doug.

You can be sure that while he is giving you a shiny new quarter, Labor Relations is in your house stealing everything else.

I make sufficient money with the Green Book as-is. At least temporarily I will make even more if this 'proposal' passes, with an immediate inferior QOL because of the concessions.

Even with the immediate marginal pay increase though, I will be under no illusion as to who the real winner will be if it's a 'Yes' vote.

 

From the sounds of it, the entire Green Book is useless.

Which is what we're going to end up with either way unfortunately.

Maybe the US Air/AWA guys can help facilitate some change in mentality down the road.

 

Half of the East will be gone by 2020 and the West (PHX) is likely to be the highest yes voting domicile percentage wise to ensure we are screwed in perpetuity.

You can forget about any changes in 2020 as it will simply be Groundhog Day for us. The West will come through for their pal Parker. Thankfully, APA was smart enough to take Parker out of the SLI portion of the MOU or the Nic would be a certainty as a reward for selling the rest of us out on the JCBA portion.

 

Ah. So we vote no and count on the negotiating prowess of the APA to get the money and all our other wants. The group that brought you the MOU with cost-neutral arbitration as a backstop, sold profit sharing for 12 million dollars and gave up the 1-3.25 rig. Got it. So simple.

 

Attila the Hun couldn't fight a mouse if he was backed by a group of pilots with your attitude.

Until we say no to Parker's POS offer he has no reason to ever improve on his POS offer (and he has every reason to keep lying that he will never improve on his POS offer).

Got it? So simple...

 

^^^^^^^^^
This. More grievances than you can count by 2020.

 

Hmmm, The East saved Parker enough money for him to grab AA. The East was given 100% of the benefits of the HP/US merger. The east agreed with Parker and refused to negotiate the west contract which was past it's amendable date. The east gave away the Age 58 training bypass which would have opened hundreds of upgrades in exchange for....(wait for it) - NOTHING!!

Did Bradford share some of the fruit basket Parker sent over to USAPA World HQ?

You guys gave away everything for the past 8 years and that has somehow slipped your mind. Brilliant!

 

Will they be shelved like the west's were?

 

I told you before, if we all got together, we could get a lot more. It hasn't happened here since the PI/US merger and now we have east, west, LAA, TWA, formerly furloughed, 3rd list, flow through...did I miss any? All with different interests and agendas.

Did you happen to catch the post on C&R from the LAA guy that didn't want the A321 in group III because it could potentially help LUS? Yeah, one big brotherhood we've got here.

Not taking that into consideration and just saying the same old thing over and over again is just stupid.

The APA could have structured this differently. I personally would have preferred to have less money but get the calendar day and LTD fixed. Those are my more important items, but I don't pretend to know what they are for the rest of the 10,000+ pilots. I just feel very, very confident that, with the contract structure, we can't get it all.

Don't worry about me though, I'm voting NO. This thing will pass and I want to join you in the "Don't blame me, I voted NO!" camp.

 

Not either way. It becomes more useless with a 'Yes' vote.

A 'No' vote preserves International/Domestic Divisions, HBT, Reasonably Available reserve language, 1 year shorter duration with 1 year earlier early openers, etc.

There is a price to be payed for the proposed rates. Making the Green Book even more useless is just part of that price.