State Department comment period on Fair Skies
08-30-2015, 07:32 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,568
Moral character is all relative. The FAA had no problem allowing ATPs to SCAB at CAL, UAL, EAL etc. For me personally a SCAB is much worse on the morality scale then someone who uses what some would consider a racial slur.
Originally Posted by Barley
I love how topics like this bring out the multitudes of casually racist morons that fill US flight decks.
Eligibility requirements: General.
To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(c) Be of good moral character;
Eligibility requirements: General.
To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(c) Be of good moral character;
09-02-2015, 04:56 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Aviation Daily
Delta, JetBlue Face Off Over Open Skies
Madhu Unnikrishnan Sep 01, 2015
LAS VEGAS—The coalition led by the three U.S. legacy carriers and organized labor is asking the U.S. government to request that the three Persian Gulf Airlines freeze capacity to the U.S. if Qatar and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) engage in consultation over those airlines’ access to the U.S.
“We haven’t asked the U.S. government to unilaterally freeze capacity,” Ben Hirst, Delta Air Lines executive vice president-corporate affairs and legal counsel, told Aviation Daily at the Boyd Group’s International Aviation Forecast Summit here. “We’ve asked the U.S. government to request that they do so.” Delta, along with United Airlines, American Airlines and allied labor groups, say the U.S. government should begin consultations—formal dispute-resolution talks provided by the open skies agreements—with the governments of Qatar and the UAE over alleged subsidies those governments have given Qatar Airways, Emirates Airline and Etihad Airways.
Hirst’s comments are a subtle shift in rhetoric from earlier this year, when the three legacy U.S. carriers more forcefully asked the government to freeze capacity. Hirst noted that Delta supports open skies agreements, but that the three Gulf carriers are “operated in pursuit of state industrial policy,” a concerted effort by Qatar and the UAE to diversify their economies away from oil. “Open skies agreements are based on the elimination of government-induced restrictions to competition,” Hirst said. “What [the three Gulf carriers] are doing is a violation of these agreements, and open skies doesn’t work in the face of massive government distortion of the market.”
The harm caused by the Gulf carriers is apparent, Hirst said. Emirates’ fifth-freedom Milan-New York flight has depressed yields on that route, and now they are the lowest on any transatlantic market. “That market was in reasonable balance with supply and demand before Emirates entered,” Hirst said. “There was no market justification to upgrade that flight to an [Airbus] A380, and that level of capacity will eventually drive the U.S. carriers out of the market.”
Second, the Gulf carriers have driven U.S. carriers out of the India market. In 2007, Delta had studied operating to as many as seven cities in India, but now has “been foreclosed” out of the country, explaining, “yields have depressed to the point where we can’t operate to India. That’s a real effect.”
But JetBlue Airways—which has joined with Hawaiian Airlines, Atlas Air and FedEx to support the open skies policies as they are now—cried foul. “The big three [U.S. carriers] are in a glass house throwing stones,” JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes told Aviation Daily. “The open skies agreements are pretty straightforward. If these are changed, we’d go back to a more protectionist era.”
Instead, JetBlue says it has benefited from the Gulf carriers’ expansion: Hayes pointed to Emirates Boston-Dubai service, which feeds passengers to JetBlue’s Boston-Detroit flight. Boston-Detroit had been a monopoly route before JetBlue entered the market, and the New York-based carrier would not have been able to make the flight work without feed from Emirates. Growth by JetBlue’s international partners helps JetBlue expand its own domestic network, and this is good for the consumer, he said. “We play a crucial role in keeping the domestic landscape competitive.”
Open skies deals have allowed JetBlue to expand its international footprint, especially with its growth in the Latin America market, Hayes said. But the three legacy carriers want to protect their immunized joint ventures with European carriers. “Basically, three airlines have 80% of the share between the U.S. and Europe,” he said. “It’s legal price and schedule collusion because of antitrust immunity.” JetBlue has called on the U.S. Transportation Department to review immunized joint ventures periodically to ensure customers benefit. “The Big Three have adopted a very protectionist attitude. They have in-built advantages with their networks and large slot-holdings at protected airports. They don’t need open skies as much as airlines like JetBlue.”
Delta, JetBlue Face Off Over Open Skies
Madhu Unnikrishnan Sep 01, 2015
LAS VEGAS—The coalition led by the three U.S. legacy carriers and organized labor is asking the U.S. government to request that the three Persian Gulf Airlines freeze capacity to the U.S. if Qatar and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) engage in consultation over those airlines’ access to the U.S.
“We haven’t asked the U.S. government to unilaterally freeze capacity,” Ben Hirst, Delta Air Lines executive vice president-corporate affairs and legal counsel, told Aviation Daily at the Boyd Group’s International Aviation Forecast Summit here. “We’ve asked the U.S. government to request that they do so.” Delta, along with United Airlines, American Airlines and allied labor groups, say the U.S. government should begin consultations—formal dispute-resolution talks provided by the open skies agreements—with the governments of Qatar and the UAE over alleged subsidies those governments have given Qatar Airways, Emirates Airline and Etihad Airways.
Hirst’s comments are a subtle shift in rhetoric from earlier this year, when the three legacy U.S. carriers more forcefully asked the government to freeze capacity. Hirst noted that Delta supports open skies agreements, but that the three Gulf carriers are “operated in pursuit of state industrial policy,” a concerted effort by Qatar and the UAE to diversify their economies away from oil. “Open skies agreements are based on the elimination of government-induced restrictions to competition,” Hirst said. “What [the three Gulf carriers] are doing is a violation of these agreements, and open skies doesn’t work in the face of massive government distortion of the market.”
The harm caused by the Gulf carriers is apparent, Hirst said. Emirates’ fifth-freedom Milan-New York flight has depressed yields on that route, and now they are the lowest on any transatlantic market. “That market was in reasonable balance with supply and demand before Emirates entered,” Hirst said. “There was no market justification to upgrade that flight to an [Airbus] A380, and that level of capacity will eventually drive the U.S. carriers out of the market.”
Second, the Gulf carriers have driven U.S. carriers out of the India market. In 2007, Delta had studied operating to as many as seven cities in India, but now has “been foreclosed” out of the country, explaining, “yields have depressed to the point where we can’t operate to India. That’s a real effect.”
But JetBlue Airways—which has joined with Hawaiian Airlines, Atlas Air and FedEx to support the open skies policies as they are now—cried foul. “The big three [U.S. carriers] are in a glass house throwing stones,” JetBlue CEO Robin Hayes told Aviation Daily. “The open skies agreements are pretty straightforward. If these are changed, we’d go back to a more protectionist era.”
Instead, JetBlue says it has benefited from the Gulf carriers’ expansion: Hayes pointed to Emirates Boston-Dubai service, which feeds passengers to JetBlue’s Boston-Detroit flight. Boston-Detroit had been a monopoly route before JetBlue entered the market, and the New York-based carrier would not have been able to make the flight work without feed from Emirates. Growth by JetBlue’s international partners helps JetBlue expand its own domestic network, and this is good for the consumer, he said. “We play a crucial role in keeping the domestic landscape competitive.”
Open skies deals have allowed JetBlue to expand its international footprint, especially with its growth in the Latin America market, Hayes said. But the three legacy carriers want to protect their immunized joint ventures with European carriers. “Basically, three airlines have 80% of the share between the U.S. and Europe,” he said. “It’s legal price and schedule collusion because of antitrust immunity.” JetBlue has called on the U.S. Transportation Department to review immunized joint ventures periodically to ensure customers benefit. “The Big Three have adopted a very protectionist attitude. They have in-built advantages with their networks and large slot-holdings at protected airports. They don’t need open skies as much as airlines like JetBlue.”
09-03-2015, 06:25 AM
#33
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 18
Dallas-Fort Worth region drawn into battle over gulf airlines | Dallas Morning News
From the mayor of Dallas. As long as it helps DFW, then screw everything else.
"Rawlings said he has called Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx to urge him to study the American carriers’ claims closely, BUT ALSO TOLD HIM THAT DALLAS GREATLY BENEFITS FROM EXPANDED DIRECT ROUTES TO AND FROM D/FW."
From the mayor of Dallas. As long as it helps DFW, then screw everything else.
"Rawlings said he has called Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx to urge him to study the American carriers’ claims closely, BUT ALSO TOLD HIM THAT DALLAS GREATLY BENEFITS FROM EXPANDED DIRECT ROUTES TO AND FROM D/FW."
09-05-2015, 10:17 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 736
Okay guys. Help me understand the logic of Delta and China Eastern. Whereas, CEA is 62% OWNED by the government of China and Delta is now a small minority owner also of said airline. But the perceived subsidies (not yet proven) of the ME3, not ownership is so much worse for pilots' careers, etc, etc.
DAL enters into an agreement with a government owned airline and not a peep from the normal players in this debate. Where is the logic?
I honestly don't know, but does CEA have an Open Skies Agreement with the US?
DAL enters into an agreement with a government owned airline and not a peep from the normal players in this debate. Where is the logic?
I honestly don't know, but does CEA have an Open Skies Agreement with the US?
09-07-2015, 02:07 AM
#35
Otto
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Originally Posted by Skyone
Okay guys. Help me understand the logic of Delta and China Eastern. Whereas, CEA is 62% OWNED by the government of China and Delta is now a small minority owner also of said airline. But the perceived subsidies (not yet proven) of the ME3, not ownership is so much worse for pilots' careers, etc, etc.
DAL enters into an agreement with a government owned airline and not a peep from the normal players in this debate. Where is the logic?
I honestly don't know, but does CEA have an Open Skies Agreement with the US?
DAL enters into an agreement with a government owned airline and not a peep from the normal players in this debate. Where is the logic?
I honestly don't know, but does CEA have an Open Skies Agreement with the US?
10-01-2015, 03:29 PM
#36
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 7
I'm not so sure I would be so smug about open skies if I were JetBlue. Flying from the NE US (BOS-JFK) to the Caribbean is the bread and butter of JetBlue's business model and sky pirate Bjorn Kjos plans to raid it with his flag of convenience aircraft and his motley band of desperate aircrew from depressed economies around the world.
Forbes Welcome link to story
Open Skies is bad news for everyone in the aviation industry regardless of their citizenship. More race to the bottom BS that only benefits the billionaire pirates of the world like Kjos.
Forbes Welcome link to story
Open Skies is bad news for everyone in the aviation industry regardless of their citizenship. More race to the bottom BS that only benefits the billionaire pirates of the world like Kjos.
10-16-2015, 08:15 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
10-24-2015, 12:14 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by CanoePilot
sorry I'm gonna have to disagree, they are willingly working for airlines who's goal it is to destroy the US3.
10-31-2015, 06:05 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by zippinbye
I say this with no disrespect to my fellow pilots at the three U.S. carriers mentioned, because I assume it's your management that wants to bed down with the camel jockeys in the Gulf States; **** off Jet Blue, Fed Ex and Hawaiian! You really think state subsidized global domination is going to be good for our country and industry? Turban power not good!
I understand it's the current business model. We make money this way...for now...however it would really be nice seeing JetBlue on the side of that a330 or 757 or even 380 (lol) of course with two or three JetBlue pilots flying it.
I see where the big three are coming from. They are not LCCs. They gotta protect their heavy metal.
11-01-2015, 05:51 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Everyone who is a US airline pilot should pay attention to this.
Some of the smaller carriers may think this is all "groovey", but big picture, here's the deal. This isn't about "open skies". The skies are already open. This is the aviation version of NAFTA. We already had free trade in North America when this got shoved down our throats. It was a killer for Canada, and a boom for Latin America. Not so bueano for the USA. You hear that big sucking sound going on south of the border? Price of goods, services, and labor is pushed downward due to increased labor pool who are willing to work for lower wages, thereby lowering the same wages in the same jobs, job classifications, skill sets and industries.
NAFTA was a shafta. This agreement is not about open skies, or fair trade, or free willy, or anything but allowing the continuation of government subsidies while simultaneously fostering an environment to lower wages which will have a synergistic effect on lowering qualificaitons for those said wages. This is a great way to off-set the effects of the perceived or real pilot shortage. If it's cheaper to fly, then it will be cheaper to learn to fly. Governments will also continue to put downard pressure on their respective airline's staffing and credentialing requirements.
If you think the last 30 years sucked, wait for the next 30 if this BS gets pushed down our throats like NAFTA. Talked to a long haul trucker lately??
I envision ALPA to take less of a role in shaping the future of aviation regulations if ALPA fails on this one. Here it comes....Age 85 for retirement and 250 total time minimum qualifications for hiring on. Starting salary will be 30 sheckles a month
Some of the smaller carriers may think this is all "groovey", but big picture, here's the deal. This isn't about "open skies". The skies are already open. This is the aviation version of NAFTA. We already had free trade in North America when this got shoved down our throats. It was a killer for Canada, and a boom for Latin America. Not so bueano for the USA. You hear that big sucking sound going on south of the border? Price of goods, services, and labor is pushed downward due to increased labor pool who are willing to work for lower wages, thereby lowering the same wages in the same jobs, job classifications, skill sets and industries.
NAFTA was a shafta. This agreement is not about open skies, or fair trade, or free willy, or anything but allowing the continuation of government subsidies while simultaneously fostering an environment to lower wages which will have a synergistic effect on lowering qualificaitons for those said wages. This is a great way to off-set the effects of the perceived or real pilot shortage. If it's cheaper to fly, then it will be cheaper to learn to fly. Governments will also continue to put downard pressure on their respective airline's staffing and credentialing requirements.
If you think the last 30 years sucked, wait for the next 30 if this BS gets pushed down our throats like NAFTA. Talked to a long haul trucker lately??
I envision ALPA to take less of a role in shaping the future of aviation regulations if ALPA fails on this one. Here it comes....Age 85 for retirement and 250 total time minimum qualifications for hiring on. Starting salary will be 30 sheckles a month
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