The airlines are looking for a few good men
06-13-2014, 06:34 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Originally Posted by 130drvr
You sir must be a Navy man, because the AF has a bunch of square filling O-5s in command that only think of their career. Exceptions sure, but AMC is overrun with them.
06-13-2014, 10:13 AM
#22
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 23
Stay flying.
Would highly recommend trying to stay in flying jobs. I spent my last 7 years (of 20) in the aforementioned shi$&y desk jobs. Currency is a huge issue with the major airlines. Usually considered to be 100 hours in the previous year. To get back flying, I am flying with a regional. Painful but made slightly easier with retirement fundage. Good luck.
06-13-2014, 02:17 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Babysitter
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by BridgeBuilder
Interesting article and it seems the hiring flood gates are starting to open. Me personally, I'm sticking it out 'till 20 for the exact reasons 2Loud points out (plus bonus locked me into 20 yrs and 1 day, wasted that last day). Medical alone will be key later in life. Plus the retirement will help ease the pain of "lower" salaries in the beginning.
My questions is, how "easy" will it be to get picked up as time goes on. I am 4 yrs out from this decision point, which means 2 yrs out on tying up ATP, networking for LORs, etc; and 3 yrs out on applications. I know a lot of guys in the last few years had to rely on guard/reserve gigs to hold them over until getting hired. I wonder how long or short the wait will be to get hired directly to the majors will be once hiring is in full swing. Ie, will it be possible to start a training class while on terminal? Pipe dream maybe!
My questions is, how "easy" will it be to get picked up as time goes on. I am 4 yrs out from this decision point, which means 2 yrs out on tying up ATP, networking for LORs, etc; and 3 yrs out on applications. I know a lot of guys in the last few years had to rely on guard/reserve gigs to hold them over until getting hired. I wonder how long or short the wait will be to get hired directly to the majors will be once hiring is in full swing. Ie, will it be possible to start a training class while on terminal? Pipe dream maybe!
06-26-2014, 04:08 PM
#24
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: SWA FO
Posts: 19
Inserted Random Question
I suppose this is the best thread to ask these question.
It looks like for every airline, the first year as a FO you make just enough money to survive, but after the first year your increase is pretty significant. To me, this looks kind of like a probation period. During this first year, are you expected to fly/reserve a certain amount of hours a month? Are your years based on a calendar from when you hired or fully qualified?
The reason I ask this question is based off of what my buddy from the Reserves was saying. Basically, a couple of folks were making more money being a "full-time" reservist who were traditional reservist that came in for more days than what they were getting for the airlines.
So my main question is if you get hired by the airlines, can you spend more time be a reservist (to make more money) and a minimum amount of time with the airlines until you are past your first year? Fire away as I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way, but I had to ask.
It looks like for every airline, the first year as a FO you make just enough money to survive, but after the first year your increase is pretty significant. To me, this looks kind of like a probation period. During this first year, are you expected to fly/reserve a certain amount of hours a month? Are your years based on a calendar from when you hired or fully qualified?
The reason I ask this question is based off of what my buddy from the Reserves was saying. Basically, a couple of folks were making more money being a "full-time" reservist who were traditional reservist that came in for more days than what they were getting for the airlines.
So my main question is if you get hired by the airlines, can you spend more time be a reservist (to make more money) and a minimum amount of time with the airlines until you are past your first year? Fire away as I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way, but I had to ask.
06-26-2014, 05:28 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A-300 F/O
Posts: 281
You can, but.....
You can take as much Mil leave as you want, as long as it is justified and you will be protected by USERRA. Don't abuse it, and don't get caught using mil to adjust your schedule and not actually being on a Mil status.
Your first year is probationary and they can terminate you for very little cause, and there won't be much the union can do to help you. Too much Mil leave, and the company can extend your probation. You could find yourself on second year pay, but still on probation. How much is too much? Depends on the company and the circumstances of the Mil leave. Voluntary for local flying or deployed on a set of orders with the 12301(D) code.
Figure about $170 per day of active duty pay after taxes as a senior O-3 / junior O-4 and $300 per day on double AFTP/UTAs. At 75 hour pay guarantee and 15 days/month, a day of reserve at an airline is worth $200 before tax and 5 hours. This is why it does not make sense to pick up open time and work extra on first year pay at straight time. Time and a half, if they are offering maybe different math. If you live with your ANG/AFRES job and can do duty on days off with the occasional mil drop, all 15 days of your Annual Tour, 48 AFTPs and 48 UTAs plus about 30 extra MPA days of active duty is worth about $22,000 after taxes. Enough to survive first year pay without extending probation.
You can take as much Mil leave as you want, as long as it is justified and you will be protected by USERRA. Don't abuse it, and don't get caught using mil to adjust your schedule and not actually being on a Mil status.
Your first year is probationary and they can terminate you for very little cause, and there won't be much the union can do to help you. Too much Mil leave, and the company can extend your probation. You could find yourself on second year pay, but still on probation. How much is too much? Depends on the company and the circumstances of the Mil leave. Voluntary for local flying or deployed on a set of orders with the 12301(D) code.
Figure about $170 per day of active duty pay after taxes as a senior O-3 / junior O-4 and $300 per day on double AFTP/UTAs. At 75 hour pay guarantee and 15 days/month, a day of reserve at an airline is worth $200 before tax and 5 hours. This is why it does not make sense to pick up open time and work extra on first year pay at straight time. Time and a half, if they are offering maybe different math. If you live with your ANG/AFRES job and can do duty on days off with the occasional mil drop, all 15 days of your Annual Tour, 48 AFTPs and 48 UTAs plus about 30 extra MPA days of active duty is worth about $22,000 after taxes. Enough to survive first year pay without extending probation.
06-26-2014, 05:48 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Tweetdrvr
Too much Mil leave, and the company can extend your probation. You could find yourself on second year pay, but still on probation. How much is too much? Depends on the company and the circumstances of the Mil leave. ......................... Enough to survive first year pay without extending probation.
There's no such thing as "too much Mil leave". You can take as much legit ML as you want. Probation is a non-event for just about everyone and extending it isn't a big deal. No one at my guard unit made one iota of effort to avoid extending their probation. I can't think of a single guy that was an airline new hire that didn't extend their probation by some amount. The airline I was at had some kind of formula. I think it was basically any missed days each month below the min in the contract missed due to ML were tagged on to the 1 year probation period. I extended mine a few months due to drills, TDYs and normal fly days during my first year. No biggie.
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