AxlF16

A friend is retiring and applying for the airlines. He's spent the last several years flying the C-40C (737NG VIP Acft) all over the world. We're trying to figure out how to 'convert' the military flight time categories (Pri, Sec, Other, Instructor) into the PIC/SIC/INSTRUCTOR application buckets.

The big issue that comes up is how he logs his time while designated the Aircraft Commander for the entire trip. For example, the military records would show PRI for time in the left seat, SEC for time in the right seat, and Other for time on break (the plane has 10+ hour endurance). I fly augmented flights for UAL and the Capt is the PIC for the entire flight...even while on break. How do the airlines like to see this broken out? Has anyone run across this issue?

Thanks in advance!

bottlenose

Pretty much everyone I know logs PIC for the entire trip if they are designated AC, even when on break. If you sign for the jet you are the PIC.

AxlF16

Thanks Bottlenose! Do you know of anyone whose gone through the airline app process using that method?

We've come up with a few formulas that are credible, but are looking for some actual experiences! Lacking any other info, I'm advising him to go with the most conservative...which keeps the 'Other' time separate from PIC/SIC and decreases his PIC total by 400 hours. Obviously we'd like to have as much PIC as possible, but don't want the risk of getting ***** slapped in an interview.

Thanks for the reply!
Axl

waldo135

PM me your number if you like. I just retired and went through the process and know at least 6-8 from my unit that have been hired recently as well.

sms74zx6r

I just got hired by a major and unless you are shy on hours I would just leave your other time out. I had over 4000 hours so I just put down Pri, Sec, and Instructor/Evaluator time and left the other time off. I had buddies who have been hired who used all their other time as PIC since they signed for the plane. I did not want to get into any gray areas on hours in the interview. Also, I just brought a Flying History Report printed off from my HARM shop instead of bringing a log book. Everyone does it differently, this is how I did and it obviously worked for me.

2xAGM114

Checks. Leave other time out. Don't even invite that conversation at the interview.

e6bpilot

I just interviewed and got hired.
Any time he signed for it is PIC. Period. Doesn't matter if he is sitting in the seat, on the john, or napping in back.
Any time sitting in the seat when he wasn't signing for it is SIC.
Additionally, any time acting as an instructor or evaluator even if not the Aircraft Conmander is PIC.
This formula worked for me and multiple other guys that fly with augmented crews and I wasn't asked a single question about it.

There are some other caveats, but basically, if the time in question is sketchy, don't include it. This includes good deal rides, flights where there was more than one instructor, etc.

There are multiple other threads that you can search, but you won't find a clear cut answer due to the multiple different opinions on this subject. I am just telling you what worked for me and lots of other guys who have flown the same aircraft as me where we always fly augmented, even on shorter flights.

breakfall35

I used the same KISS method as e6b, and was also successful.

MikeF16

I think keeping it simple is definitely the way to go for military guys.

I saw a civilian talk about how he just stopped logging time for a period of years. Then he decided he wanted to be an airline pilot and just guestimated his hours over those years. Then he posted his great methodology on this board thinking he was educating the community at large. It's that guy the logbook review is intended for, not us.

PurpleToolBox

Just be careful. Some companies don't let you include Other time and it is stated on their websites. Unless he needs the Other time for minimum qualifications, I'd leave it out.

My two cents.

Mod note ... this threat is perhaps one of the most asked about issues for military guys. It would be nice to see some of the staff/guest help (Albie) do a page on this topic and post it at the top.