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Old 04-14-2013, 02:41 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by fatsopilot View Post
We get it, you left Pinnacle and made a good choice. You can move on now. You don't have to keep coming on here and trying to prove to the rest of the world you made the right decision.

People didn't vote for this because of the bridge, they voted for it because they wanted to keep their jobs. Also, if you re-read the last sentence you just posted, Delta can hire 1/3 of the required Pinnacle pilots outside of the bride (and these can be FOs). An FO has a much better chance of being hired from Pinnacle than from any other company, how are FO's at any other companies going to get hired at Delta?
I am pretty sure FOs from other carriers have a better chance since they are not restricted to only 4 spots that are available to their pilot group...
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:47 PM
  #42  
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What has led people to believe that Delta has made a history of hiring pilots straight from the right seat of an RJ anyways? Of course you are likely going to have to be Captain to be hired.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by fatsopilot View Post
We get it, you left Pinnacle and made a good choice. You can move on now. You don't have to keep coming on here and trying to prove to the rest of the world you made the right decision.

People didn't vote for this because of the bridge, they voted for it because they wanted to keep their jobs. Also, if you re-read the last sentence you just posted, Delta can hire 1/3 of the required Pinnacle pilots outside of the bridge (and these can be FOs). An FO has a much better chance of being hired from Pinnacle than from any other company, how are FO's at any other companies going to get hired at Delta?
Where did I say I'm proving I made the right decision? I'm pointing out lies that were spread to dupe you into voting yes. The only way a 9E FO will get hired at Delta is if he/she upgrades at 9E and goes through the SSP program. It seems from the posters above who went to WIA, Captain Arnie has already made it clear at the WIA conference that anyone at 9E will have to go through the SSP and wait their turn. No cutting any lines. As for the FOs, the response is still "you have a bridge program" which means no FO will be hired outside the SSP agreement.

And 9E would have been around regardless of voting yes. If Delta wanted 9E gone, it would be gone regardless of what concessions were voted in or not. You said you wanted to keep your job, at what point what you say a paycut is too much that you wouldn't do your job? How about 30/hr for a RJ CA and $20/hr for RJ FO? Would that still be worth "saving" and having a job? To be honest, a topped out 37/hr FO job isn't worth saving, not when you can make the same (or greater) at other regionals like SkyWest.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:43 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by shimmydamp View Post
What has led people to believe that Delta has made a history of hiring pilots straight from the right seat of an RJ anyways? Of course you are likely going to have to be Captain to be hired.
There have been some in the past, with the right contacts or qualifications (masters/PHD, beyond a bachelor for example). I could see Delta hiring a 4000-6000+ hr RJ FO who didn't upgrade simply because he never had the opportunity to do so.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:04 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
Where did I say I'm proving I made the right decision? I'm pointing out lies that were spread to dupe you into voting yes. The only way a 9E FO will get hired at Delta is if he/she upgrades at 9E and goes through the SSP program. It seems from the posters above who went to WIA, Captain Arnie has already made it clear at the WIA conference that anyone at 9E will have to go through the SSP and wait their turn. No cutting any lines. As for the FOs, the response is still "you have a bridge program" which means no FO will be hired outside the SSP agreement.

And 9E would have been around regardless of voting yes. If Delta wanted 9E gone, it would be gone regardless of what concessions were voted in or not. You said you wanted to keep your job, at what point what you say a paycut is too much that you wouldn't do your job? How about 30/hr for a RJ CA and $20/hr for RJ FO? Would that still be worth "saving" and having a job? To be honest, a topped out 37/hr FO job isn't worth saving, not when you can make the same (or greater) at other regionals like SkyWest.
You never said you wanted to prove that you made the right decision, but your post count on Pinnacle threads makes it pretty clear. You just want the reassurance that you wouldn't have ended up at Delta if you stayed at Pinnacle. What are you going to post on the Pinnacle threads when half of your peers in your old seniority range at Pinnacle are at Delta?

There is not much of a difference in the chance of a FO getting hired at Delta from Pinnacle or another airline. The chance is very slight in all cases, but at least at Pinnacle FOs can fill 1/3 of the required Pinnacle quota. Outside of the Mesaba flow, Compass flow and Pinnacle bridge agreement there are not going to be very many pilots from other airlines (let alone FOs) hired at Delta for a while -- at least a Pinnacle FO has a slight chance. Where as all pilots from other airlines are competing for a very small number of jobs, there will likely be no FO's hired.

You said you wanted to keep your job
Where did I say that? If you are having difficulty reading my posts then you have no creditability when it comes to the details of the bridge agreement. I'm not trying to be a douche but let's get the facts straight here. Again, it seems like you are just posting to put your mind at ease with your decision to leave Pinnacle, just in case something good happens to the Pinnacle pilot group (a job at Delta for 25% of the group or a staple).
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:44 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by fatsopilot View Post
You never said you wanted to prove that you made the right decision, but your post count on Pinnacle threads makes it pretty clear. You just want the reassurance that you wouldn't have ended up at Delta if you stayed at Pinnacle. What are you going to post on the Pinnacle threads when half of your peers in your old seniority range at Pinnacle are at Delta?
You are hitting that KoolAid bottle hard. There is no "ending up at Delta" if you stay at Pinnacle. All you get is an interview, that is it. While getting a Delta interview would be nearly impossible in their last hiring cycle of 2010 (because they only hired a small handful with thousands of applications), Delta hiring is going to pick up a lot in 2014, 2015 and beyond. The problem with Pinnacle's deal is two fold. One, you only get an interview and there is no guarantee of a job or a Delta number. Two, there is a set quota per year of how many Pinnacle guys can get hired. This SSP is absolutely nothing to write home about. What am I going to post when peers in my seniority range interview at Delta? You'll have to ask me that in 2025 because that is realistically when they'll get their chance. But I can assure you with a 99.9% confidence that these FOs would be better off leaving, going to Spirit/Virgin/JetBlue, and then applying to Delta. They are far more likely to be called once they qualify their resumes beyond just the glut of RJ pilots applying to Delta.

There is not much of a difference in the chance of a FO getting hired at Delta from Pinnacle or another airline. The chance is very slight in all cases, but at least at Pinnacle FOs can fill 1/3 of the required Pinnacle quota. Outside of the Mesaba flow, Compass flow and Pinnacle bridge agreement there are not going to be very many pilots from other airlines (let alone FOs) hired at Delta for a while -- at least a Pinnacle FO has a slight chance. Where as all pilots from other airlines are competing for a very small number of jobs, there will likely be no FO's hired.
On the contrary, LCC FOs have a better chance than RJ FOs. Don't take it from me, go to a job fair. Once Delta does start hiring, there is a limit on Pinnacle guys they can take. Other airlines have no limit. For example, there is no limit on how many Spirit pilots Delta can hire.

Where did I say that? If you are having difficulty reading my posts then you have no creditability when it comes to the details of the bridge agreement.
Right here:

Originally Posted by fatsopilot
People didn't vote for this because of the bridge, they voted for it because they wanted to keep their jobs.
And I have all the access I could want for the bridge agreement and TA details.

I'm not trying to be a douche but let's get the facts straight here. Again, it seems like you are just posting to put your mind at ease with your decision to leave Pinnacle, just in case something good happens to the Pinnacle pilot group (a job at Delta for 25% of the group or a staple).
Ease the decision to leave Pinnacle? Are you serious? The only positive thing would have been a guaranteed Delta number for every Pinnacle pilot. That would have been something write home about. Knowing that today or tomorrow you can't go to Delta, but in 2020, you have a guaranteed class date and a number. That would be a good deal.

But all you got is a lousy "guaranteed interview" which every major airline uses at some point to get their regional counterpart to agree to some sort of concessions. It's a carrot at the end of a stick, dangling in front of you. I have no regrets leaving. Being permanent RJ FO at 37/hr even with only a guaranteed Delta interview in 2023? No way. What surprises me is your defending tone, as if you're proud to be at 37/hr with nothing to show for it but a potential guaranteed interview at Delta in 2023? Have some self respect.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:12 PM
  #47  
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Definitely agree with shyguy. An airbus FO has a better chance than an rj FO. Enough said.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:32 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
And remember the 9E union fed BS that you didn't have to be a CA to qualify for the Delta preferential interview? And that FOs could do it outside of the Streamlined Selection Program (SSP)? Yeah right! Delta just gave a big resounding NO to that one.

Bottom line, no 9E FO will see a Delta interview until they upgrade at 9E, if and when that happens.
Bingo, enjoy that 2 to 4 thousand one time bribe money waiting for that upgrade to then start the clock to then get an interview (not assuring you of any job offer by the way) # Shoulda voted F NO!
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:36 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
The problem is not the things that were already known, for example, payrates. When one votes for that, they knew what they were getting. The problem is for them to get the FOs to pass this. A BIG issue/contention was the Delta SSP interview program. All FOs were surprised and probably ticked off that one has to be a current CA or be a former CA in order to qualify for the SSP interview. However, the union sold this to the FOs by saying something along the lines of "well, FOs, you don't have to go through the SSP, nothing stops you from applying to Delta on your own." And people bought it.

This gentlemen Arnie seems to have put a nail in that supposed "fact."

Any current 9E FO should be livid at what they were fed about the SSP interview program to get this whole TA/deal to pass.

Should have talked to the Mesaba and Compass guys about trying to apply outside the flow what we were told..... Course that might have derailed that overwhelming vote.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
You are hitting that KoolAid bottle hard. There is no "ending up at Delta" if you stay at Pinnacle. All you get is an interview, that is it. While getting a Delta interview would be nearly impossible in their last hiring cycle of 2010 (because they only hired a small handful with thousands of applications), Delta hiring is going to pick up a lot in 2014, 2015 and beyond. The problem with Pinnacle's deal is two fold. One, you only get an interview and there is no guarantee of a job or a Delta number. Two, there is a set quota per year of how many Pinnacle guys can get hired. This SSP is absolutely nothing to write home about. What am I going to post when peers in my seniority range interview at Delta? You'll have to ask me that in 2025 because that is realistically when they'll get their chance. But I can assure you with a 99.9% confidence that these FOs would be better off leaving, going to Spirit/Virgin/JetBlue, and then applying to Delta. They are far more likely to be called once they qualify their resumes beyond just the glut of RJ pilots applying to Delta.


On the contrary, LCC FOs have a better chance than RJ FOs. Don't take it from me, go to a job fair. Once Delta does start hiring, there is a limit on Pinnacle guys they can take. Other airlines have no limit. For example, there is no limit on how many Spirit pilots Delta can hire.


Right here:



And I have all the access I could want for the bridge agreement and TA details.



Ease the decision to leave Pinnacle? Are you serious? The only positive thing would have been a guaranteed Delta number for every Pinnacle pilot. That would have been something write home about. Knowing that today or tomorrow you can't go to Delta, but in 2020, you have a guaranteed class date and a number. That would be a good deal.

But all you got is a lousy "guaranteed interview" which every major airline uses at some point to get their regional counterpart to agree to some sort of concessions. It's a carrot at the end of a stick, dangling in front of you. I have no regrets leaving. Being permanent RJ FO at 37/hr even with only a guaranteed Delta interview in 2023? No way. What surprises me is your defending tone, as if you're proud to be at 37/hr with nothing to show for it but a potential guaranteed interview at Delta in 2023? Have some self respect.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem, at no point did I say I voted for the concessions. I stated why other people voted for it, it has already been beaten to death so I'll just leave it at that. If you can't comprehend English at a 3rd grade level I'm not going to explain it to you. Also you seem to be mixing up threads, we were talking about regional FOs getting hired at Delta, not FOs from a tier 2 major.

You should just start a thread and argue with yourself about how lousy of a place Pinnacle is, you seem to get off on that as you spend every waking hour telling people that work there how bad it is and how great VA is.

For the record, I don't agree with the concession, I think they put downward pressure on the industry. I think the bridge agreement is a joke. However your opinion has no creditability with me, your motivation to come on here and put down Pinnacle is clearly because you have some kind of ego problem working for a company that is only one tier above a Regional but far from a real airline.
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