3inthegreen

Parker has said multiple times recently they want to bring more flying back in house to the W/O carriers. This has to do not so much with cost as it does profits. You guys might be cheaper on a cost perspective, but they don't have to share the profits with anyone when a W/O regional does the flying.

billyho

I totally agree with you. I never said ZW wasn't an asset. I totally think they are but Parker is known to get what he wants.

I'm would bet that Parker walked into ZW headquarters and probably wanted a long term deal form ZW that was insanely low. That's why a long term deal wasn't done. ZW knew they wouldn't get cuts from it's pilots. You guys are a solid pilot group. Believe me we at Piedmont have been there done that.

I believe the longer ZW holds out the more valuable you guys become. But at what cost? If no deal gets done soon you'll probably see more FO's starting to bail out and start having even more issues finding new pilots to replace them. It's pretty much up to management and getting a deal done with the pilots and another carrier.

I really hope you guys do and like someone said ZW's been around a long long time for a reason. They offer a good product.

billyho

Kind of what I was saying. It's the bottom line. We all know the profit margins that the contract carriers enjoyed isn't close to what it once was. Parker realized he could operate his own planes and at the end of the day keep the profits no matter how small.

sweetholyjesus

Indeed holding out has its benefits and risks. Two years is a long time to come up with an agreement though.

I still don't see the rush to move laterally. Get the apps out to the LCCs at least and move up asap. I know a few people here have been hired at legacies shortly after starting with LCCs. If the shiz does hit the fan here you could always move laterally last minute, plus get tens of thousands of dollars in bonuses because you're already typed with 121 experience.

There is also risk to jumping to one of those "career progression" airlines (lower pay, faster upgrade/flow) prematurely. The last AA jumpseater I had flowed from PDT after 17 years, though I don't know his exact circumstances...

billyho

Yes, it's down to 15 years now and by the end of this year it will be most of the 2007 hires leaving.

Not sure how they are going to replace all the experience and I think that's going to be the problem down the road with the flow.




I'm sure his circumstances was making about 140.00 an hour after 3 years.

sweetholyjesus

More like 20 years

Brokeasspot

The guys flowing mid February were hired 01/00, so 16 years on the dot. By end of the year it will be 07 hires, and drop from that. So, a 20 year guy that is still here or just now flowing has declined by choice.

CAirBear

This right here.

Granted the future is unknown, but I would be very surprised if all AA W/Os are not struggling BIG TIME to find pilots. The fact is there are an extremely limited amount of people who care enough to pursue this career.

I also feel most people see this "flow" for what it is. To me its a scam (that looks pretty). Its designed to keep you trapped at a regional for much longer than you should (given today's market and retirements).

I would not go to an AA W/O because of a flow. If you think Parker won't either, temporarily shut it down, or severely restrict it, when times get tough - then you are probably naive. Unfortunately a lot of young guys entering this profession, don't know a lot of this stuff.

Currently the flow is great for senior folks at PDT/PSA who, just one year ago, had no clue ANY of this was going to happen. For someone entering either airline today? I wish you luck.

sweetholyjesus

I don't think you understood, but ok.

17 year flow + 3 years at AA to get to $140/hr = 20 years...

16 years is a long time to spend at a regional, especially in a payscale that caps at 12 years and/or never gets to 3 digits (PSA/PDT)..

billyho

It's all how you look at it however. How's the flow a scam? It's gives you a golden tick to one of the biggest airlines in the world. It's not like everyone that interviews is hired right? It's not like everyone can even get a interview. Look at AWAC and how senior they are now. it's not like people are getting hired from there at a big clip. I know a few friends there that have been captains for a long time. They have degree's, good training and driving records and they can't get a call from anyone. Could be age, or too much flight time. The flow says, 'here you have a job if you want it.' Plus there's a ton of Military pilots getting out now and regionals will compete against them. We know who the majors like between those two. Especially Delta and American.
If the WO's offer a good upgrade time then get your PIC and apply to United and Delta first. There's no pressure on you getting those jobs because you know American will be waiting for you and you'll be a Captain making good money while waiting. How long it last is to be seen.

I see the pilot pool drying up also. I see a few contract carriers going out of business also which could be a short fix by flooding other regionals with pilots. I predict that soon the Mainline carriers will be scrambling to secure pilots. Look at Commutair and what they are doing now with United.

Nobody knows the answers but saying the Flow is a scam is way off base. It's there if you want it and I can assure you every regional out there wished they had one. Don't you think that? I'm sure everyone at AWAC /Republic and a few others wish that had one right now because it would take pressure off worrying about your future. The only people saying the Flow is a scam are the ones that don't have one.

At the end of the day however I think the shrinking of regionals will be a good thing for everyone.