Death of the 50-seaters and the future of ZW.
07-21-2016, 07:13 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
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Death of the 50-seaters and the future of ZW.
Does anyone else find it peculiar that we've been hearing about the death of 50-seat aircraft and pilot groups in the past taking concessions to procure bigger aircraft, while other airlines advertise growth and take these same aircraft that have been parked? Especially PDT, taking 145s like it's some big advancement, while Envoy had to rid themselves of this same plane? Commutair too. I realize the 145 is a step up from a Dash, so this is still a net gain from a pax perspective. Just think this whole industry is nuts, that's all. I feel my own company, if they are to stay in business, will be getting larger/newer airframes (AWAC). I also think they were pushing the last TA heavily because it got rid of that pay for larger aircraft. With this in mind I am a solid NO vote on any TA that doesn't increase pay and/or gets rid of pay that is already there.
07-21-2016, 07:33 AM
#2
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I understand that all of the airlines that fly 50 seaters want bigger airplanes, and I do agree that they will need larger airplanes (and newer airplanes) if they are going to survive, but there is a problem of scope. Unless AWAC can fly the larger airplanes for cheaper than the other airlines, why would AAG give them larger airplanes? They will simply fly the 50 seaters until they are no longer needed, and then either transition to something else or go out of business.
At this point, the scope is pretty close to maxed out on larger airplanes. There just isn't room to give AWAC larger airplanes unless they take them from elsewhere.
At this point, I would imagine that they will raise pay at the WO'd and keep the 700's and 900's at either PSA or Envoy and put the 175's at Envoy. That will be the cheapest option, unless AWAC or somewhere else can be cheaper. Since all profits at PSA and Envoy go to AAG, they have a significant cost savings even if the pilots get the same pay and benefits as AWAY.
At this point, the scope is pretty close to maxed out on larger airplanes. There just isn't room to give AWAC larger airplanes unless they take them from elsewhere.
At this point, I would imagine that they will raise pay at the WO'd and keep the 700's and 900's at either PSA or Envoy and put the 175's at Envoy. That will be the cheapest option, unless AWAC or somewhere else can be cheaper. Since all profits at PSA and Envoy go to AAG, they have a significant cost savings even if the pilots get the same pay and benefits as AWAY.
07-21-2016, 07:38 AM
#3
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Posts: 325
Originally Posted by CLT Guy
I understand that all of the airlines that fly 50 seaters want bigger airplanes, and I do agree that they will need larger airplanes (and newer airplanes) if they are going to survive, but there is a problem of scope. Unless AWAC can fly the larger airplanes for cheaper than the other airlines, why would AAG give them larger airplanes? They will simply fly the 50 seaters until they are no longer needed, and then either transition to something else or go out of business.
At this point, the scope is pretty close to maxed out on larger airplanes. There just isn't room to give AWAC larger airplanes unless they take them from elsewhere.
At this point, I would imagine that they will raise pay at the WO'd and keep the 700's and 900's at either PSA or Envoy and put the 175's at Envoy. That will be the cheapest option, unless AWAC or somewhere else can be cheaper. Since all profits at PSA and Envoy go to AAG, they have a significant cost savings even if the pilots get the same pay and benefits as AWAY.
At this point, the scope is pretty close to maxed out on larger airplanes. There just isn't room to give AWAC larger airplanes unless they take them from elsewhere.
At this point, I would imagine that they will raise pay at the WO'd and keep the 700's and 900's at either PSA or Envoy and put the 175's at Envoy. That will be the cheapest option, unless AWAC or somewhere else can be cheaper. Since all profits at PSA and Envoy go to AAG, they have a significant cost savings even if the pilots get the same pay and benefits as AWAY.
07-21-2016, 07:49 AM
#4
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Posts: 505
Some airlines operate better than others that's why the shift. Endeavor is taking over New York flying from GoJet and Republic because we have a better performance record. Eventually Endeavor will be the only regional flying the 200 for Delta and after that the 50 seat flying will go away altogether.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
07-21-2016, 07:59 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyKilo
Some airlines operate better than others that's why the shift. Endeavor is taking over New York flying from GoJet and Republic because we have a better performance record. Eventually Endeavor will be the only regional flying the 200 for Delta and after that the 50 seat flying will go away altogether.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
07-21-2016, 08:21 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyKilo
Some airlines operate better than others that's why the shift. Endeavor is taking over New York flying from GoJet and Republic because we have a better performance record. Eventually Endeavor will be the only regional flying the 200 for Delta and after that the 50 seat flying will go away altogether.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
Markets don't change overnight. You have to meet current demand before any major changes can be made. And even those changes are done over years.
07-21-2016, 09:43 AM
#7
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Posts: 206
Originally Posted by CLT Guy
At this point, I would imagine that they will raise pay at the WO'd and keep the 700's and 900's at either PSA or Envoy and put the 175's at Envoy. That will be the cheapest option, unless AWAC or somewhere else can be cheaper. Since all profits at PSA and Envoy go to AAG, they have a significant cost savings even if the pilots get the same pay and benefits as AWAY.
07-21-2016, 10:03 AM
#9
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Posts: 1,544
Delta in particular has been begging Skywest to take more 200 flying on, places like MSP and DTW it just makes sense. Skywest is also using the 200 on at risk routes.Gas prices are low and staffing levels are decent.
