From July class thread…
Originally Posted by
myrkridia
As an outsider it's good to read your perspectives on UPS dynamics with management. At Delta they try to sell the whole "we're one big family" corporate message, but most pilots I interact with don't buy it. Does your leadership try those tactics as well? Reading your messages it feels pretty much like any other airline I've flown. For Delta at least it seems like the rejected TA in 2015, the schedule optimization prior to COVID and prolonged post COVID Section 6 negotiations have marked turning points for many among our pilot group.
UPS is similar to other outfits but has a lot of idiosyncrasies. UPS is the opposite of the “We are family,” thing a delta. We are already a unionized company so there’s no care-bear hugs and puppy dog kisses going on to keep union drives at bay. Breaking the unions is their mission.
Decentralization org structure causes frustration:
UPS employees are essentially individuals in our own fiefdoms. Y’all want to know why hiring here is so disorganized? It’s because Louisville HR, Atlanta HR, and management pilots are all involved in the process…not in 1 big cohesive team working together, but 3 different teams with three different agendas working almost against each other. It’s like that all over the company, very little is top down, it’s all decentralized. Even the pilot training group is sequestered between mgmt and non mgmt, sim and oe guys, different fleets, none of them much in sync with the others. Often leads to dysfunction, frustration for the end users and a big portion of perceived “toxicity,” here stems from this. eg. Mgmt asst. chief pilot approves an expenditure for a line pilot. Line pilot submits reimbursement to admin. Admin denies reimbursement as ACP not authorized to, “authorize.” Union gets involved, grievance process gets line pilot his reimbursement (if he/she had recording of orig conversation with ACP). New hires take note: screenshot everything -you must become your own quasi paralegal working here. No ones fault, no one targeting another, everyone is just doing their job according to their house rules. System is flawed.
Active Union Busting:
I don’t want to air dirty laundry but If you’re new at UPS, logon to the B&G and read post 1 from “for the new guys,” thread. Union busting activity is ultimately implemented through the management pilots and admin people. Important to note that it’s not personal, has nothing to do with you specifically. You happen to be the pawn on that square at that time. Old school UPS it was constant. Over time the company has softened up (or they became more cautious, less brazen…?). Now that we are officially in contract negotiations, things have started to ramp up again. The next couple of years are sure to be unpleasant in hopes to break you and so that you place blame on your union and EB/NC. Things will ease up again after the contract is signed.
Bleeding Brown:
Another aspect of toxicity is the UPSer factor. With few exceptions UPS is a, “promote from within,”company. (With no exceptions, they are frugal from head to toe - Our current CEO flies on Delta vs private jets). Everyone with a decent job at Brown started out in entry level positions and paid their dues towards earning good jobs and good pay/benefits. Pilots didn’t. We walked right in and went straight to the top. Think of the psyche of people who put in 15, 20 years at a company seeing new hires (relative) making 2,3, 4 times as much as they’ll ever will. Remember, UPS is a promote from within culture, good jobs/high pay here are a reward for hard work and loyal. Pilots bypass that cultural nuance and there is real resentment to us by some for it. That’s also why I think 1st year pay is low: not because its what “UPS thinks we are worth,” but because they feel we need to pay our dues, make some sacrifice like everyone in Brown else did. JMHO…. Anyway, this resentment can translate into some of the toxicity felt working here.
The IPA
In stark contrast, there is a, “We are family,” atmosphere within the IPA. Maybe more like a fellowship in reality, but we are a cohesive team and we do look out for and help each other out. It’s a small group of 3K or so vs 15K at the legacies and that helps us. I feel way more like an IPA pilot who is subcontracted to UPS vs as an actual UPS employee. The union doesn’t sell this, it’s just the organic dynamic that exists within the group.
Sorry for the long winded reply. You have all the facts you need about the job at UPS available to you but getting a feeling for how it is once you’re inside is another feat altogether. Hope these types of posts help you in evaluating a career at the IPA and UPS. Best of luck to you all.