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Old 12-23-2016 | 07:56 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by 50SeatsofGrey
First of all this is a rediculous statement. The flying has never gone to whoever has the most pilots, or even whoever has the best chance at staffing it. History has proven that growth precipitates recruitment. There was a point not long ago that AWAC had more than enough pilots to take on any added flying that could be thrown its way, especially when republic was hurting badly. Further, before Piedmont voted in concessionary jet rates, they were in the exact same situation as AWAC; couldn't recruit because of an uncertain future and aging fleet, and had nowhere near the amount of pilots they needed for all the (potential) added flying. By your own logic, the flying would have gone to AWAC at this point and not Piedmont because they could staff it. But that's not what happened. Singing that new deal with Parker changed Piedmonts outlook and made it an attractive place to be, and people started to apply. You don't need the full amount of pilots that added flying would require as a prerequisite to get it. So when we are whipsawed against Piedmont and PSA again, and do take more of their flying because we now make less, I will vomit.
Good point. Look at tiny airlines like CommutAir, PDT, and maybe TSA doubling or even tripling in size AFTER announced growth. At least PDT is ponying up the dollars. For now...
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:00 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by billyho
Like I said it was before our time. I'm thinking it was the early 90's. Ask some of your senior Captains. I think United basically bought them for the routes and then almost squeezed them out of existence. It pretty interesting learning the history of many of our regional carriers.
Interesting indeed. At least back in the day they were smart enough to secure long-lasting gains to protect their future (1.5% raise per year, for example). That kept us above industry average for a while. Still does if you take away the bonuses other people get. But nowadays pilots and their MECs jump at short term payouts and shinier planes. Times sure have changed.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:02 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by 50SeatsofGrey
First of all this is a rediculous statement. The flying has never gone to whoever has the most pilots, or even whoever has the best chance at staffing it. History has proven that growth precipitates recruitment. There was a point not long ago that AWAC had more than enough pilots to take on any added flying that could be thrown its way, especially when republic was hurting badly. Further, before Piedmont voted in concessionary jet rates, they were in the exact same situation as AWAC; couldn't recruit because of an uncertain future and aging fleet, and had nowhere near the amount of pilots they needed for all the (potential) added flying. By your own logic, the flying would have gone to AWAC at this point and not Piedmont because they could staff it. But that's not what happened. Singing that new deal with Parker changed Piedmonts outlook and made it an attractive place to be, and people started to apply. You don't need the full amount of pilots that added flying would require as a prerequisite to get it. So when we are whipsawed against Piedmont and PSA again, and do take more of their flying because we now make less, I will vomit.
Why in the hell would you be whipsawed by American WO's? You're a contract carrier right? You're basically be whipsawed by everyone then. You don't see Delta or United banging down the door for ya.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:06 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by sweetholyjesus
Interesting indeed. At least back in the day they were smart enough to secure long-lasting gains to protect their future (1.5% raise per year, for example). That kept us above industry average for a while. Still does if you take away the bonuses other people get. But nowadays pilots and their MECs jump at short term payouts and shinier planes. Times sure have changed.
Yes, and I believe back in the day the Regionals actually owned many of their routes and slots. Piedmont had the same deal under Henson and when JetPiedmont saw the money from those routes coming in they decided to buy Henson.
I could be wrong but I think AWAC had some really money making routes and when United couldn't get their hands on them they decided to just buy'em and gut'em to get them.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:12 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by slammer1906
What does the amount of applications on file have to do with the current health of an airline, **?
You're totally reaching now. Lol!
It's shows a general desire for people to WANT to work there.Delta and AA will always have that.
Awac?? Death by 1000 cuts.
1000 cuts with an old rusty razor blade at that.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:13 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by billyho
Why in the hell would you be whipsawed by American WO's? You're a contract carrier right? You're basically be whipsawed by everyone then. You don't see Delta or United banging down the door for ya.
What are you talking about? What exactly would "Delta banging down the door for us" look like to you? Describe exactly what we would see and hear if that were happening. Nevermind, just explain how any of us would even know that was happeneing.

If you aren't capeable of critical thinking, or even anything other than stringing together sentences with buzzwords and obvious comments about what is going on now and in the immediate foreseeable future, you don't have anything of value to add.

Why wouldn't we be whipsawed against everyone else? That's the only reason Parker signed a deal with TSA and Expressjet once he took control, to whipsaw them against Envoy in an attempt for Envoy to take concessions, which they eventually did. It's so painfully simple I don't understand how you don't see it. In 2-3 years:

Parker to Piedmont: "With all those bonuses and raises, paying for flight time, you guys are now more expensive than AWAC. Take concessions or else we give the flying to them."

Replace PIEDMONT and AWAC with literally any other carrier and this is what happens, all the time.The wholly owneds are not immune from whipsawing just because they're wholly owned. If you think it's over because you signed one concessionary deal, you're literally an idiot.

Don't mistake your length of time in the industry for actual insight.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:14 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by slammer1906
You're now deflecting. It's ok little fella.
You enjoyed the industry leading contact. You gave that up. Move on with your career.
Deflecting how, I answered your question yet you haven't been able to answer anyone else here instead you keep deflecting. Yup I enjoyed it for about 2 monthes before every one else started signing something better.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:18 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by 50SeatsofGrey
If you aren't capeable of critical thinking, or even anything other than stringing together sentences with buzzwords and obvious comments about what is going on now and in the immediate foreseeable future, you don't have anything of value to add.

Don't mistake your length of time in the industry for actual insight.
And what are you adding? You're sitting hear basically crying that you're cheaper then the WO's and now wondering why what's happening is happening.

Don't worry a big announcement is on it's way.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:19 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by prex8390
They were both signed in times of economic hardship. At this point we are just bragging who has a smellier turd
That's not the correct way to use that expression. Don't overuse it just because you saw it on the internet and wanted to sound cool.

I understand that you want to defend your new employer so that you feel better about your decision to move on. Really, I do. But the two situations simply do not compare. That is all. People being flown into buildings with the world watching (followed by several major carriers declaring bankruptcy) is a bit more catastrophic than "my regional airline isn't making enough money this year".

Originally Posted by slammer1906
You're now deflecting. It's ok little fella.
You enjoyed the industry leading contact. You gave that up. Move on with your career.
Technically you're deflecting because you chose not to answer his question.
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Old 12-23-2016 | 08:22 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by 50SeatsofGrey
The wholly owneds are not immune from whipsawing just because they're wholly owned. If you think it's over because you signed one concessionary deal, you're literally an idiot.

Don't mistake your length of time in the industry for actual insight.
Oh we've been Whipsawed a few times against each other. Starting with ALG/PDT/PSA. Then with PSA/PDT and then PSA/PDT/ENVOY.

As for attacking me personally go right ahead. Good day.
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