Arbitration
11-01-2017, 09:04 AM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by Mudhen200
This is a very confusing time for me. I feel like I've been kicked in the nuts. I've never been so upset at getting a moderate pay raise in my life. I'm angry at my employer for what they think of me and how they disrespect me. I'm unhappy when told I'm #5 and that I will always be #5 because that is simply what the business model demands.
I believed that I was worthy of pay and benefits equal to my pears at other airlines. Those other airlines make less money pound for pound when all the accounting is done, but that does not matter. What matters is size (head count) and wide bodies.
So, it is what is it is. I'm to old to move on and start over. I know that for the remainder of my career I will act differently due to the actions of my management and their business model. They desire that I accept being #5 for my career - they have demanded that of me. So, I will be the best #5 Captain I can be. No extensions, no radio calls to fix this or that, no pushing to "gitter done" in any way. Just go to work, provide safe transportations to the pax, assuming the company has put everything else in place to support said operation without me doing others work outside of my cockpit. Then go home. Simple, safe, no problems. Do my job and allow others to do theirs.
I also need to start working on my sick leave bank. As a man gets older I have noticed the aches and pains that creep up some days. No point in exacerbating them by sitting in the cockpit all day. I can get paid 25% on the dollar for those unused sick days once I retire or I can get paid 100% on the dollar if I use the sick days before I retire. What to do, what to do.
The really confusing aspect of this to me is that we (Alaska ALPA) apparently are 100% happy with this decision. I may be the only Alaska pilot who has literally had sleepless nights since the award came out. I may very well be the only guy who was kicked in the nuts and is still looking for the frozen peas. Why do I say this? Because we have run a near perfect operations for the last two days since the award. So, a moderate pay raise, still leaving us behind other 737 pilots (and FiFi pilots) and slipping further and further behind with each passing year is A-OK with this pilot group. Hell, management has yet to even acknowledge that there was an award! Not one word, not one breath from our management that anything even happened! And why should they? The operation is running 100%, so all those pilots must be happy! I would have expect at least one other man or woman here to have tossed and turned in bed as much as I have been the last two nights and found themselves unfit for duty the next morning - but I guess not.
Well back to work you highly efficient #5 pilots. Gitter Done!
I believed that I was worthy of pay and benefits equal to my pears at other airlines. Those other airlines make less money pound for pound when all the accounting is done, but that does not matter. What matters is size (head count) and wide bodies.
So, it is what is it is. I'm to old to move on and start over. I know that for the remainder of my career I will act differently due to the actions of my management and their business model. They desire that I accept being #5 for my career - they have demanded that of me. So, I will be the best #5 Captain I can be. No extensions, no radio calls to fix this or that, no pushing to "gitter done" in any way. Just go to work, provide safe transportations to the pax, assuming the company has put everything else in place to support said operation without me doing others work outside of my cockpit. Then go home. Simple, safe, no problems. Do my job and allow others to do theirs.
I also need to start working on my sick leave bank. As a man gets older I have noticed the aches and pains that creep up some days. No point in exacerbating them by sitting in the cockpit all day. I can get paid 25% on the dollar for those unused sick days once I retire or I can get paid 100% on the dollar if I use the sick days before I retire. What to do, what to do.
The really confusing aspect of this to me is that we (Alaska ALPA) apparently are 100% happy with this decision. I may be the only Alaska pilot who has literally had sleepless nights since the award came out. I may very well be the only guy who was kicked in the nuts and is still looking for the frozen peas. Why do I say this? Because we have run a near perfect operations for the last two days since the award. So, a moderate pay raise, still leaving us behind other 737 pilots (and FiFi pilots) and slipping further and further behind with each passing year is A-OK with this pilot group. Hell, management has yet to even acknowledge that there was an award! Not one word, not one breath from our management that anything even happened! And why should they? The operation is running 100%, so all those pilots must be happy! I would have expect at least one other man or woman here to have tossed and turned in bed as much as I have been the last two nights and found themselves unfit for duty the next morning - but I guess not.
Well back to work you highly efficient #5 pilots. Gitter Done!
11-01-2017, 10:22 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 647
Originally Posted by Mudhen200
No extensions, no radio calls to fix this or that, no pushing to "gitter done" in any way. Just go to work, provide safe transportations to the pax, assuming the company has put everything else in place to support said operation without me doing others work outside of my cockpit. Then go home. Simple, safe, no problems. Do my job and allow others to do theirs.
11-01-2017, 10:28 AM
#224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 737 tiller master
Posts: 288
I share similar sentiments with many of you. TOS Alaska captains just received a 16% pay raise (approx. 33% for VX captains) but I am more upset now than when Kasher was awarded. I had to second guess and ask myself if I'm crazy for feeling this way. For the past few days, I've been trying to shake it off but to no avail.
There's never an end here at Alaskasworld! We continue to get kicked in the nut sack and the koolaid chuggers still keep on truckin'! I had hoped that Uncle Sam's boys would see through the company's spin and do the right thing. How naive of me to have such hope! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. This society is absolutely rotten to the core!
I have now completely removed myself from this job. There was a faint glimpse of hope for this dysfunctional organization even after Kasher but now, they've lost me 100%. I have accepted the fact that the company deems my worth to be 6-10% below market value (and falling) and that they expect me to perform at such level. Ask and you shall receive. No one goes shopping for a Rolex at Walmart, except our management. Effective immediately, I will give them exactly what they've asked of me - 5th/6th best effort. I will be a good little soldier and follow the orders of my employer.
I'm gearing up for 2020. I hope the rest of this pilot group is doing the same. We will have to fight tooth and nail in a steep uphill battle. I've never voluntarily offered career advice to anyone but here's my 2 cents. If you are looking for a job, Alaska Airlines should be dead last on your list even if you have half a brain. Alaska is a "legacy" only by definition but it's really operated like a LCC and treats their front line employees like dirt. They may advertise the highest first year pay and 2-5 year pay is somewhat decent but the rest of the pay scale is below HAL. That's just pay. Our pairing and lines are the worst I've seen since my time here and the inability to trade trips (yes, INABILITY) will further negatively impact your QOL. Most of the trips are not commutable so expect to spend extra time away from your loved ones while flying 3 day trips worth 11-12 hours of credit/pay. Kasher completely gutted our work rules and it's never been the same. And let's not forget the fact that we have ZERO scope. If you want to work for a penny pinching company who will flat out tell you that you are worth less than your peers and kick you in the nut sack with a smiley face, then you've found your stepping stone airline job. Heck, you'll at least get a type rating out of it, right? There's your total compensation in a nutshell. Just remember, beatings will continue until morale improves. This is about the extent of leadership skills of this management teem comprised of bean counting zombies.
For the first time in my career, I wish I had left for greener pastures when I had the chance after Kasher - missed golden opportunity for sure. I feel so much better that I've come to grips with reality. However, to think that I've given my best effort to this operation makes me sick to my stomach. It'll take some effort to pull back my performance 5-6% but I'm looking forward to how much more relaxed I will feel when I can fulfill the company's expectations of me.
There's never an end here at Alaskasworld! We continue to get kicked in the nut sack and the koolaid chuggers still keep on truckin'! I had hoped that Uncle Sam's boys would see through the company's spin and do the right thing. How naive of me to have such hope! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. This society is absolutely rotten to the core!
I have now completely removed myself from this job. There was a faint glimpse of hope for this dysfunctional organization even after Kasher but now, they've lost me 100%. I have accepted the fact that the company deems my worth to be 6-10% below market value (and falling) and that they expect me to perform at such level. Ask and you shall receive. No one goes shopping for a Rolex at Walmart, except our management. Effective immediately, I will give them exactly what they've asked of me - 5th/6th best effort. I will be a good little soldier and follow the orders of my employer.
I'm gearing up for 2020. I hope the rest of this pilot group is doing the same. We will have to fight tooth and nail in a steep uphill battle. I've never voluntarily offered career advice to anyone but here's my 2 cents. If you are looking for a job, Alaska Airlines should be dead last on your list even if you have half a brain. Alaska is a "legacy" only by definition but it's really operated like a LCC and treats their front line employees like dirt. They may advertise the highest first year pay and 2-5 year pay is somewhat decent but the rest of the pay scale is below HAL. That's just pay. Our pairing and lines are the worst I've seen since my time here and the inability to trade trips (yes, INABILITY) will further negatively impact your QOL. Most of the trips are not commutable so expect to spend extra time away from your loved ones while flying 3 day trips worth 11-12 hours of credit/pay. Kasher completely gutted our work rules and it's never been the same. And let's not forget the fact that we have ZERO scope. If you want to work for a penny pinching company who will flat out tell you that you are worth less than your peers and kick you in the nut sack with a smiley face, then you've found your stepping stone airline job. Heck, you'll at least get a type rating out of it, right? There's your total compensation in a nutshell. Just remember, beatings will continue until morale improves. This is about the extent of leadership skills of this management teem comprised of bean counting zombies.
For the first time in my career, I wish I had left for greener pastures when I had the chance after Kasher - missed golden opportunity for sure. I feel so much better that I've come to grips with reality. However, to think that I've given my best effort to this operation makes me sick to my stomach. It'll take some effort to pull back my performance 5-6% but I'm looking forward to how much more relaxed I will feel when I can fulfill the company's expectations of me.
Last edited by Arctichicken; 11-01-2017 at 10:46 AM.
11-01-2017, 10:37 AM
#225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: 737 tiller master
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by echelon
All due respect, wasn't the time for this attitude about 6 months ago, BEFORE this decision was sent to arbitration?
Last edited by Arctichicken; 11-01-2017 at 10:52 AM.
11-01-2017, 10:54 AM
#226
missionary
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: Right seat 787 or missionary
Posts: 98
Helplessness
Mudhen,
I empathize with you. There’s a deep feeling of powerlessness. It’s not like you can go anywhere and get paid $251 an hour. My decision to leave was a painful one. I felt and still feel scarred.
In the end, in Arbitration, no one countered the Company’s argument that you should be 5th-6th because you always have been. No one refuted precedent. The retention/attraction of pilots argument apparently failed. Nor did the Union address true costs by illustrating how much of an advantage the Company already enjoys because of your work rules. Under Section 25, Scheduling, the Company is getting by with fewer pilots because your contract forces and allows you guys to be so productive relative to everyone else. You are working more hours per pilot. Sadly, it’s mostly for straight time.
As far as you personally performing at only 5th level, it’s not going to make a difference, even on an emotional level. The only thing that the Company understands is operational metrics. So, unless they start seeing cancellations, you personally can perform at 5th level until the cows come home. As long as there is no shortage of guys flying time and a half and selling back vacations, the schedule will get covered and your efforts will be in vain.
You are right. Today is the time to prepare for the future. Start saving for that strike fund, become militant, and stop being phuckn boyscouts; because, you don’t get the contract you deserve, you get the contract you demand. The Company is never going to do the right thing unless forced to do so. The only way to force them is thru job actions. Keep in mind that there are legal job actions and other job actions. There are also phone trees and blanket parties; but, that’s another hypothetical story.
Also, the union is not the MEC, not the Negotiating Committee, or even National. The Union is the pilot in the seat next to you. If he’s doing things counter to the best interests of the group, that’s a problem.
Just my two cents.
I empathize with you. There’s a deep feeling of powerlessness. It’s not like you can go anywhere and get paid $251 an hour. My decision to leave was a painful one. I felt and still feel scarred.
In the end, in Arbitration, no one countered the Company’s argument that you should be 5th-6th because you always have been. No one refuted precedent. The retention/attraction of pilots argument apparently failed. Nor did the Union address true costs by illustrating how much of an advantage the Company already enjoys because of your work rules. Under Section 25, Scheduling, the Company is getting by with fewer pilots because your contract forces and allows you guys to be so productive relative to everyone else. You are working more hours per pilot. Sadly, it’s mostly for straight time.
As far as you personally performing at only 5th level, it’s not going to make a difference, even on an emotional level. The only thing that the Company understands is operational metrics. So, unless they start seeing cancellations, you personally can perform at 5th level until the cows come home. As long as there is no shortage of guys flying time and a half and selling back vacations, the schedule will get covered and your efforts will be in vain.
You are right. Today is the time to prepare for the future. Start saving for that strike fund, become militant, and stop being phuckn boyscouts; because, you don’t get the contract you deserve, you get the contract you demand. The Company is never going to do the right thing unless forced to do so. The only way to force them is thru job actions. Keep in mind that there are legal job actions and other job actions. There are also phone trees and blanket parties; but, that’s another hypothetical story.
Also, the union is not the MEC, not the Negotiating Committee, or even National. The Union is the pilot in the seat next to you. If he’s doing things counter to the best interests of the group, that’s a problem.
Just my two cents.
Last edited by GearBoy; 11-01-2017 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Typo
11-01-2017, 10:59 AM
#227
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by sACKtis
Once again alaska pilots show themselves as cheap tables that fold under anything. The Mesa of 737 operators...while the other majors got scope clauses they had their thumbs up their ass. At least the nail is in the coffin on mainline jobs while QX and SW grow. Alaska pilots are solely to blame for this.
Originally Posted by busbusbaby
A very ignorant statement
11-01-2017, 11:05 AM
#228
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by Klsytakesit
As was inferred by the arbiitration panel, both 09 and 13 were opportunities for us to stand our ground and get scope, retirement, retro pay, industry leading pay and job protections.....they were unwilling to do for us what we are always unwilling to do for us...not on the backs of VA or anyone hired post “contract 200” but certainly the rest of us should spend a quiet moment or 2 years and see if we might step up just once this century.....
Cry 'havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war.
In other news, who's up for a "5th best pay, 5th best pilots" lanyard?
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