This is an excellent post- Thank you.
Sometimes its tough not to presume the best move.

Deleted...why am I even wasting my time with this.

Of course 12 year top of scale is important and all (most) pilots aspire to that.

His post however was about how for him, at this point in time, the $36 bump to HIS pay rate resulting from the acquisition, is not worth the upheaval to his personal and professional life that it's about to cause.

OTZeagel1 (with 8 total posts since opening his account one week ago) is probably the guy who got pi***d about hearing "Alaskan" on the radio. He has figured out how to operate the internet, his VJJ is hurt and he's got an agenda. Stay tuned for more of his hate on a forum near you...

I would like a source on that one, first 121 job at age 29, less than 14 years to go, haven’t gotten to 12 year pay yet (still keeping my apps updated, so if I get lucky I will have 2 years at the highest rate, probably FO rates to get the base I want.

Jumpseating on AA and UA, it is amazing how many 20 narrow body FOs I have seen.

Wrong
 

From Joe DeNardi in January, 2018:

Most titillating tidbit we read this week on JetBlue came from Joe DeNardi with Stifel Nicolaus and Co.:

Balance Sheet Nearing Fortress Status

JBLU ended the year with on balance sheet debt of $1.2B plus ~$700m in capitalized rent for total adjusted debt of $1.9B and adjusted net debt of $1.2B. That's less than 1x adjusted net debt to EBITDAR giving JBLU the best balance sheet behind Southwest. To think that the balance sheet has gotten to this point by accident is silly, and the company could have used it to buyback stock long ago - clearly, it has more ambitious plans for it which likely include M&A.

We view the likelihood that JBLU targets a ULCC for consolidation as less likely than Hawaiian. All potential deals for JetBlue come with their own bit of messiness, but Hawaiian makes the most sense strategically, in our view. We'd expect JBLU to wait for improved visibility into how much margin compression higher growth from United this year and Southwest's entrance next year will mean for Hawaiian.

But we see it as fairly likely that the eventual structure of this industry are the Big 4, one airline out of Alaska, JetBlue, and Hawaiian, and one airline out of Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant.

Lol, how/why did compass get brought up? So random haha

Once Southwest enters the Hawaii market Alaska will start struggling

Angle Lake deserves whatever is coming their way from WN.

I know this is a trendy thing to say these days but I’m curious as to why you think this? AS competes with HAL, UAL, DAL, AAL, ALG, even WJA for customers to and from the Islands. We’ve held our own and have only increased service due to higher demand over the last decade plus. Why do you think SWA entering the market will drastically effect our market share any more then any of the other airlines listed above? It may shake the current model up a bit but we won’t feel it any differently than any other airline. All airlines are competing for the same pax, not just AS and WN. Why is it so popular to hope we fail? I don’t know about you but I hope we succeed as a company because I have kids to feed and bills to pay.

I hope we succeed too but just haven’t seen Alaska do anything but retreat and sit by and watch other airlines grow in our hubs, particularly Seattle. We have zero brand identity outside of the PNW and there’s only so long we can depend on our west coast vibe and west coast passengers. Southwest has a massive network and is aggressively growing and can really shake up the Hawaii market. Alaska has shown no interest in growing, we just cancelled a bunch of routes everyone else seems to make money on. The only thing they’ve done recently is drum up a lot of media attention about constructing a new building by headquarters in Seattle. Who cares!

I don’t agree with many things AAG does but do you expect them to remain in unprofitable routes? Do you know other airlines financials? How do you know these other airlines are making money on all these routes? I’d rather them fly profitable routes and make money. This will in turn make it easier for us to demand more in 2020. All I’ve seen is a redeployment of A/C, not shrinking. Shrinking would be less airplanes, less pilots, less traffic etc. As far as I know, we’re still taking orders of A/C and still hiring pilots. Maybe you don’t care about the new building in Seattle but it, along with the N satellite expansion, to me, indicates AS plans on continuous growth. As far as other airlines growing in our hubs, that’s the business. Delta’s growth in SEA jump started AS to grow faster than it had in the past. Competition is good. AS has fought many different battles in their hubs. Believe it or not, they fought off WN in SEA a while back. We’re going into CA more than we ever have before. That seems more like AS going into other airlines territory than vis versa. Brand recognition comes up a lot mostly from former VX guys. To THIS I say who cares. Waaaay above my pay grade. I don’t care if someone thinks I only fly in the state of AK, they don’t sign my paycheck. These are things we can’t influence and therefore shouldn’t concern ourselves with. What we can influence is voting on a better contract in a few yrs.

If you don't believe this take a stroll over to the South Satellite. Look out the North facing window. Delta as far as the eye can see. A concourse, B concourse (except for SWA at the end) and the entire South Satellite. Rode on two FULL Delta jets to get home last night.

And check the FIDS board. Delta codeshares with ALL the airlines Alaska USED to code share with. Dumping the AA code share was a HUGE mistake IMHO.

Alaska doesn't have the East/West gravitas to compete with AA and DL. One or two flights a day to a few East Coast and Midwest destinations won't cut it. More and more Alaskans are gravitating to Delta because they can get farther than the West Coast.

You'd better care. Because the Delta invasion of the PNW will be the prime reason Angle Lake is going to come looking for a concessionary contract in 2020. BTDT.

Besides the VX routes most if not all of the California growth is with RJ’s, the sjc transcon may be the only exception. We also reduced the frequency of other transcons out of LAX and SFO. Other than that we’re just putting Airbus where 737s used to be and vice versa. A lot of the VX bread and butter routes to jfk and ewr are now half full because the passengers went to delta and JetBlue because they offer better service than Alaska. But hey if a new company building means growth to you, I don’t know what to say. New cities, more planes, more seats, and more frequency means growth, not a structure that will house a uniform shop

It doesn’t matter if it’s Delta, Spirit, Southwest etc. AAG will ALWAYS have a boogie man in their back pocket to use as an excuse for concessions. In good times and bad, they’re gonna use every tactic they can to keep the money on their side of the table. It’s what they do, it’s what EVERY AIRLINE MANAGEMENT DOES. Whether or not someone on the East Coast knows where I fly will not change this. It’s up to the folks in marketing to fix that, not the pilots. You speak of Delta in the South Satellite, remember United in the North? Now it’s all AS jets. We’re still 51% market share in SEA and Delta is a distance second. I think guys n gals are worrying about things they really don’t need to be worried about. OCCP, I think investments in buildings means they plan on growth otherwise why do it? I don’t know your experience but I assume you’ve seen this industry at both ends of the spectrum and know that worrying about things like marketing and what may or may not happen in HI is an exercise in futility. Let the process unfold.

I'll vote to walk before I take a concession. If nothing else JCBA had taught us to NEVER accept a **** sandwich. It can haunt you for years.

I would hope every one of us would vote to walk. My point is, no matter how we’re doing as a company, good or bad, management will make it sound like we need to take one for the team and accept less. Even if we had 100% market share of the entire West Coast, BnB would say there’s a chance WN or DAL or anyone for that matter, are coming for our jobs and we need to accept less. We’re gonna get the same treatment regardless of how well known the AS brand is or isn’t, so why would anyone outside of marketing worry about it? Are you guys out there shaking hands and kissing babies to promote the brand? The one and only thing we have control over is the ability to say no with our vote or if it’s truly unpalatable, our feet. All these other other worries are just distractions.

And of course they will reward themselves nicely.

I don’t wish you or any of your brethren ill will. Here’s the reasons why SWA is going to Hawaii as stated numerous times by the company:

1. To give our Rapid Rewards pax the ability to use their points on a Hawaiian vacation (as is available on DLA, AA, UAL, etc.).

2. To support the “California Strong” initiative

3. The point that most everyone is missing is that we are carrying a lot of pax to California where they then connect to HAL (& Alaska) and fly to the islands. Therefore we are basically feeding the competition as they take our pax to the islands instead of us doing that for them.

4. Inter-island fares are high and SWA realizes they can go in and make a legitimate play for some of that market.

I sincerely hope there’s enough pax and revenue to go around for all of us but because of a combination of points 3 & 4 I just don’t see this as being a good thing for HAL airlines. Kind of like the Spirit build up in BWI is not good for SWA. Nature of the industry though.

Is your ETOP’d program on track? We are y’all going to be ETOP’d?

It makes sense. I say the same thing about AS feeding every airline that takes our pax continuing on to international destinations. Personally, I think the competition will put a fire under our managements *** and hopefully they’ll make some meaningful changes. Much like Delta’s growth in SEA caused us to grow at an expedited rate from ‘13-‘17. My post is directed at those from both camps (AS and VX), that sound like morose, goth clad, teenagers with Smashing Pumpkins and Nine Inch Nails posters on their bedroom walls. “Everything sucks always and my parents just don’t understand me!” Guys n Gals are getting wound way too tight about things that pilots have nothing to do with. I do feel terribly bad for our East Coasters with an impending base closure. I’ve been in their shoes. I was West Coast based and during the recession, base closures forced me to commute transcon to the East Coast for years. Maybe WNs growth out west will spur AS to grow out East in turn helping our pilots out there. Just a thought.

On track? Supposedly, but you know how that goes. I don’t understand the second ? though.

I think he was trying to find out which Hawaii destinations you are going to fly to.

SJC, SMF, OAK, & SAN to LIH, HNL, OGG & KOA.

Gosh, those look very familiar. :D

"Everybody has plan until they get punched in the mouth..."

-MT

Umm, o.k. �� Not sure what you’re getting at but I guess this applies to everyone and everything in life...

New buildings mean absolutely nothing. Real estate is an asset and the space will be attractive to a suitor wanting to grow in pnw. It won’t cost Delta or American much to rip the alaska signage down and toss it in the garbage where is belongs.

You mean like what’s happening to the VX buildings? I understand your lives have been changed but the blind hate for all things Alaska is coming off like wounded pride. Your frustration is manifesting itself in the form of teenage angst. Like I said above, you guys are sounding like a morose fourteen year old who thinks the whole world is lame her parents don’t understand her. You guys say AS isn’t growing? They just grew by 800 pilots, 60+ airplanes, many gates in CA and eliminated one competitor while keeping another at bay. It takes time to process this. I feel your pain that things are different now but what do expect to be happening after a multi billion dollar purchase? I do think that the investments in buildings means the company has plans to continue growth. Especially the N gates in Seattle. Why pump money into increased gate space if you have no plan to put more planes at those gates? If we get bought or merger with someone else, o.k. then, life changes again. Until then, squeeze every penny you can out of the paycheck, enjoy your home life and focus on making this place the airline you want it to be in the next contract.

Dont confuse the APC loudmouths with the non APC 99.5% former Virgin America pilots. The MAJORITY that I have come across have rationalized this like men and are taking it in stride. May not be happy about it but at least are taking it in stride. Many have been through this before and know the dance. Nothing we can do about all of it anyways, except fight for a great and deserved collective in a couple years.
Fly your plane, fly the contract, and enjoy life.

Why so much hate for the hand that feeds you? Alaska Airlines isn't perfect by any means but it's a solid company with a good balance sheet. I hate to be the one to tell you this but you should seek employment elsewhere if you are really that disgruntled. I've been there myself and it ate me alive. A few of my friends have left and they seem to be happy. Life is short.

Sorry to butt in folks. Whats your current 12yr CA rate? APC shows $251. When/what is the next increase? Thanks

-JB scum

Went to 258.53 on April 1 and will go to 266.29 April 1 of next year - 3% increases.

$258.53. I believe next April another 3% bump then 2020 negotiation should start.

Thanks guys. Cya in the merger in a few years ;)

What competitor is alaska keeping at bay? Not being sarcastic, truly have no clue who you are talking about since alaska is getting crushed by all competitors

I’m referring to Jet Blue. Buying VX helped keep JB from growing on the West Coast which would have placed even more pressure on AS. AS has a huge hill to climb in fending off airlines that are 10X in strength and numbers. It’s no easy task as you already know since VX lost the battle for any spot on any coast 2 years ago. If VX still existed today, do you think they would be fairing better? It’s a very subjective question but based on size, balance sheet and network, coupled with current increases in costs, do you really believe VX would be blowing any of the competing West Coast airlines out of the water and you guys would be Scrooge McDucking into your money bins with your great new contract? Be honest with yourself. AS put itself into a financial position to retain a seat at the table, VX didn’t. It sounds like VX had some good QOL provisions and many of you are angry to be losing those. I get that. However, to repeatedly howl that AS is a garbage, failing airline is just the cry of a pride wounded person refusing to acknowledge their small niche airline got gobbled up by a, more financially sound, competitor. You can live in the reality of the situation and fight with the rest of us to make AS the place you want an airline to be, or you can keep daydreaming of the day VX rises again while shouting obscenities at the buildings around you.

All AS did was buy itself 5-10 years because it doesn’t know how to evolve

Pssssssttttt.......it has nothing to do with routes and culture and everything to do with shareholder value!