You say that but don’t acknowledge that the VX purchase WAS part of the evolution. The Delta invasion put a fire under their a$$ and they realized they had to do something ASAP. AS bought VX for a number of reason that have been stated more than once but the highlights are 1.) AS had to keep further competition from gaining market access. 2.) Eliminate direct competition. 3.) Grow to a size that would prevent themselves from being consumed by another company in order to protect the shareholders, as AS has been a cash cow for a decade. This rapid growth could not happen organically so the only option was an acquisition. When you say AS only bought 5-10 more years, being that VX was the item purchased, you’re acknowledging that VX had no future on it’s own and will only cause the eventual downfall of AS. I don’t think so. A whole lotta change can happen in 5-10 years. Remember the lost decade, 2001-2011? You gotta step back from the “US vs. YOU” and ride the ride. In the end, we’re going to be just fine.

VX had its own thriving niche market, which AS management promptly abandoned. You don't get to lay this at the feet of Virgin. I'm with OCCP on this one: on its current trajectory, Alaska Airlines has less than 5 years before a major shift/failure happens.

This doesn’t mean anything. That’s like saying the stock market, on it’s current trajectory will forever rise. The next hour, you’ll have to say, on it’s current trajectory it will forever fall. Do you buy and sell at every shift in the market? AS has adjusted it trajectory many times and will adjust it again and again as needed in order to keep a seat at the table. So you can say that on it’s current trajectory, AS is headed for a major failure but todays path is just that, today. They will adjust it again to avoid a major failure. Most successful airlines have to do exactly that to stay in business. After 2001 when most airlines were pulling back, AS changed course and added many East Coast destination. Then they changed course again and added all the HI flying. Most recently, they changed course again and bought VX. Nobody at the company saw those things coming but, boom, there they were. My point in relax. Let the process unfold. Let the dust settle. Most of your “sky is falling” attitude is based on resentment towards AS because they dismantled your old company. Just like when you’re on takeoff roll, look further down the runway or you’re gonna be all over the place.

I didn’t realize we had so many airline pilots who are CEOs, CFOs, COOs and other upper management bubbas. Had I known a college degree wasn’t a requirement for these positions, heck I wouldn’t have wasted four years of my life or maybe should have gotten an “online-pay-4-diploma” BA in Under Water Fire Prevention (UWFP) like some of y’all.

Don't be naive. There are plenty of pilots with MBAs or related management/finance degrees. And, guess what, they all have real world experience in the aviation industry.

Yup, they get involved with the union and slide right into a management slot..........at this company anyway.

I’m not here for a dick measuring contest and to compare pedigree but I do know a thing or two about advanced degrees. I’m not aware of any professional cockpit monkeys running a successful airline at the moment, capisce? Some of you give yourselves way too much credit considering that y’all fly an airplane tailored to a skill level of an average 12 year old.

In reply to your point, William Walsh runs AIG (parent company of BA, Iberia, among others), one of the biggest airline holding companies in the world. Mr. Walsh is a former airline pilot, having started his flying career with Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus, subsequently running the company, and then moving on to run BA, followed by AIG.

And don't forget...Donald Trump's personal pilot will be the FAA Administrator.

Just because they choose to fly rather than manage doesn’t mean they’re not capable. It’s a matter keeping ones soul.

All of this talk about the demise of Alaska Airlines is absolutely nuts. One of the things we do have are probably one of the best airline management teams in the country. Pilots being as brilliant as we are often are so ego-centric that many actually believe that how they are doing is a direct indication of how well the airline itself is doing. Brad and Bens’ job is to get us to fly as much as possible for as little as possible while keeping attrition to an acceptable level without any service disruptions due to labor strife. The fact that they are getting the same, probably better productivity out of their pilots for less pay than the bigger 4 is a testament to their management skills, not an indication of Alaska’s iminent demise. Alaska Airlines future is bright and full of profits. This management team will figure it out. What is not a forgone conclusion is whether this airline will be a coast to coast airline, an airline in name only with CPAs for RJ’s, or perhaps an airplane leasing company dry-leasing 737’s to chinese airlines.

The Alaska Airlines shareholder has a very bright and promising future...Alaska pilots...who knows?

BT and BM are getting exactly what they want because labor chose to give in, albeit some of it is because of arbitration awards, which seem to always fall in favor of the company. Now go back and see why on earth would you put any kind of arbitration clause in a contract. That now leads you back to what labor chose. We are our own demise.

Lets hope so, because they have lost 40% since last March.

THAT might be good for pilots.

These are the same guys that got bid up and paid $4.5B in cash and debt for VX. I don’t know if “the best” is the term I’d use.

They didn't have a choice. If they didn't spend 57/share on VX, jetBlue was going to get it at 55/share. Had jetBlue bought VX, Alaska would have been screwed. AS did what it had to do.

Yep, sometimes you are forced to choose the best of not so optimal choices....

Well done JetBlue! After 15 years in business, and with your first contract, you were able to get more than Alaska has in 85 years! 🤦*♂️

Well done JetBlue. First contract. Scope, pay, health care, scheduling etc etc all the things no one can get in their first contract.
Amazing.

I believe , the proposed pay rate 12 year Cpt is the same here at Alaska and 15% 401k also the same .

86 years and 18 years. Seems like they achieved a lot more in a lot less time.
And scope.

Commuter
 

First day of short call reserve no RAP or pairing report prior to 1000 (waivable by pilot)
o First day of long call reserve no pairing report prior to 1400

We need this at alaska!!!

• Industry-leading pairing construction rules
• Max unstacking restrictions
• Ability to utilize trade-board to reduce line to ZERO hours

• Don't know what that means. Still flying to south america at 3am in the weather.
•Useful 1 month a year, benefits only senior guys.
•All the junior guys will be stuck with their crappy lines as all the senior guys dump their garbage and turn the reserve grid red.

Do not be jealous. We still dont know what kind of scope we got. If it was that great I think they would have highlighted all the great things about it. We will still be whoring out to the ME3 and every other foreign dirtbag outfit.

You guys, get a snap up. Please. Then we can get one (next go round probably) and we can finally pattern bargain.

Max unshackling- Alaska already has that...it is called no unstacking.

Trade to zero - Alaska has this also.

Maybe you meant drop to zero maybe? If this is NOT dependent on some coverage formula/staffing chart then it is a benefit. If not, than it will turn out to be not very useful. Right now I can technically drop to 75 but none of my trips are droppable. I think it would help the senior guys get not only weekends but weekdays off too. It won’t help the guys on the bottom of the list at all.

They didn’t have a guy named Kasher destroy decades of pay work rules advancements in one destructive ruling. You don’t get much when you’re begging hat in hand after a guy like Kasher destroys your world. It takes time to get it back....if ever.

It will HURT the junior guys. There is a coverage chart that will quickly stop all dropping and swapping from happening. Nobody but the very senior will have any flexibilty when this hits.

I would ignore passer for now. We only have bullet points right now. The devil is in the details so hopefully we make sure all the small print is spot on. A lot of guys are making assumptions but really know nothing especially POG above

This........

This says so much about Alaska

We're gonna have to change all the stickers to "6th Best"

Why? When the majority drive to work, this goes to the bottom of the priority list.

That was 2005.

'09? '13? '17?

Be honest, '13 was all about hitting the 200 number at the expense of pretty much everything else. And who voted the pension plan away? Wasn't that a self-inflicted voting in?

Just look at the bullet points. 80%-95% industry lagging (but just a little so its OK). But I am sure the "details" will make up for lowering the bar on pay.

You missed the main point. AS voted the pension plan away for the NEW GUYS. If you look at Alaska’s contract from a senior pilots point of view it is rock solid. 41 days of vacation. Who cares about scope anyway. Industry leading retirement. Step trading actually works. It’s a whole nother contract.

So get there and pull the ladder up?

A contract clause for people not yet on the property? Would YOU give something up for guys not even hired yet?

Everyone on the property at the time was given a choice...A plan, freeze plus increase in 401k contributions or straight 401k with even larger contributions.

Those were the choices. Straight 401k for new hires after a determined date. Yet you seem to think the people on the property made a NEGOTIATED for a clause to screw potential employees.

Back in the days of the B-scale, I'd agree with you. On this topic you're WAY off base.

Why the hell would you even WANT a DB plan? Any CEO can shed that at his leisure with a quick trip through the BK drive-thru. Unless you think the PBGC is going to pay out more than a 401K...

The rules have changed as American found out when they tried to shed the pension to the PBGC.

http://time.com/5167301/airlines-pilots-pensions/

Exactly. That's why you take the half lump sum option. Even if Alaska defaults to the PBGC, you're half A plan pension is less than PBGC maximum.

I don't care who sends the check every month as long as its the same every month.

Now the guys who got raped were the DAL/UAL heavy guys who had an A plan that paid $8/$9K a month and got rolled into the PBGC at $4K a month.

If I'm a young guy given a choice, I'd forgo the A plan and opt for a 13-15% 401k match every time.

You should see the construction of the new "World HQ" AA is building at the DFW Training Center. :eek: