I've heard on multiple occasions by a few AS pilots about this "windfall" that VX pilots have received. I'm still looking for the windfall check in my mail. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But here are facts. Here are the actual numbers...

Pre Merger rates (2017)

6th year FO
AS- $128.68 VX- $112.00, Difference of 13%

TOS Captain
AS- $$216.45 VX- $180.00, Difference of 20%

AS pilots got a raise the same time as the VX pilots. AS pilots got their raise 3 years early because of the acquisition. Lets not make it sound like VX pilots got a raise and AS did not. We both did. Yes ours was bigger. Had we stayed separate airlines, VX was in contract negotiations. And while we will never know what our final rates would have been, I think its safe to say a 15-20% raise to match Alaska's would have been more than feasible albeit disappointing compared to what the rest of the industry was getting.

If we had been bought by the big 3, where their rates averaged to be $165 for a 6th year FO and $260 ToS Captain, and we just pigbacked on their contract, I definitely could see your point.

If you want to call it a windfall because we both got raises at the same time so that we can be 5th best at 10% below the big boys, have at it. I'll stop trying to bring reason into your life.

 

Gee, sounds like a win for both pilot groups. 2020 we will have to be unified because we deserve better.

However, without the acquisition, who would B&B have been comparing AS to... Allegiant?

 

6 year FO: $128.68-$112.00=$16.68/$112=14.9%
TOS captain: $216.45-$180.00=$36.45/$180=20.25%

AS pilots contract was amenable April 1, 2018. Our "early" negotiations didn't really materialize since the company didn't negotiate. Getting a JCBA that was a partial contract in October of 2017 made our raise 6 months early. Coincidentally the same 6 months we would have started negotiations for a new contract. Hardly the 3 years you pulled from thin air. Any speculation on "what could have been" holds no value to the conversation.

Did your FO rates at Virgin only go to 6 years? If so, a 12 year FO scale is also a windfall.

VX raises post JCBA.

TOS Captain: $258.53-$180=$78.53/$180=43.6% raise..
6 year FO: $153.70-$112=$41.70/$112=37.2% raise.

 

Thanks for the correction. I was thinking 2020 because that is what we are fighting for next. There is a 12 year FO payscale, but upgrades were running about 6 years at its longest.

My argument was that AS pilots got a raise too and it didnt take much for VX to get to AS payrates. You may see it as a windfall, but I doubt there is a VX pilot running around thinking they just won the lotto, as some of you make it out to be.

 

Yep I got a raise. Yep I’ve lost 3-4 days off a month. I do not consider myself a lottery winner. That’s not a trade I would have chosen for myself.

 

Raise was nice looking at it from the surface.

Looking how many days off I'll average under ALK work rules, routes and new seniority is ~4-5 days off less per month. So 48-60 days off less per year. A pay raise is not worth that.

 

I try to stay out of these counterproductive arguments. But I do want to say one thing. I made more at Virgin at $185/hr than a same year Captain at AS making $202/hr. With the JCBA I got a decent hourly bump but lost a ton of soft time, incentive pay, and profit sharing.

 

******
If we can work to get a great contract, this place will be a good place to work but the pay bump we got has been easily offset by some really crappy work rules.

At VX we were already getting 12ish % on our 401K and better Scheduling and QOL provisions than y'all... and that was without a contract

 

Y'all got a huge windfall and jackpot, all rolled up in one! Branson and the BOD decided to sell VX because it couldn't turn a profit. The big three had zero interest in dancing with VX. Six or so airbuses with the rest leased and just a few gates in SFO, LAX, and JFK is less than ideal even for a start up airline. Thank your lucky stars that jetBlue wanted to dance with y'all which forced Alaskan to show up to the trailer park pool party. jetBlue couldn't hang so they had to leave the party and Alaskan got suckered into hooking up with the undesirable date. Had jetBlue not started a bidding war y'all would have been acquired by an investment company and gone the way of Aloha or best case, doing the limbo dance with Frontier. Let's not kid yourselves.

Y'all talk about getting a contract had VX stayed independent is beyond naive. jetBlue has been in negotiations for how long now? VX pilot group didn't even have a contract/baseline and being unprofitable as VX was, your pilot group would have been in negotiations for a very long time and eventually would have bled out. Do y'all think that you could have scored a 43%/37%+ pay raise on your own? How about a 15% 401K? Most definitely not. Just look at the likes of jetBlue or better yet Spirit, a profitable airline with a much superior business model than VX, who not too long ago settled on a contract. Could Alaskan have scored the current arbitrated pay raise on its own without too much effort? You betcha. Was it not the arbitrator who awarded the pay rates in the JCBA? If anything, the awarded pay rates were lower than what Alaskan could have gotten in arbitration had VX not been a part of the equation. The bottom line is, VX piggy backed on Alaskan and got a huge windfall.

When the SLI is finalized, the VX pilot group will once again get a huge windfall and Alaskan boys 'n girls will be left holding the bag. It's common knowledge that VX wasn't a career airline and Alaskan may not appear to be very attractive in its current form mainly due to less than desirable schedules and work rules but it offers a far better career than VX ever could.

 

Boy.... that was productive.....not.

THIS is why SLI negotiations should be done baseball style. He#^ ALG does contract negotiations via arbitration so you’d think they’d be open to a more civilized SLI process.