^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

Here’s the deal. None of of us asked for this. None of us has any control over this. An arbitrator will determine SLI. Not you or me. So how about we all just chill out, have a beer and wait for the results. When they come out, this will be your new reality. AS pilots didn’t do this to you. VX Pilots didn’t do this to you. ALA5KA MANAGEMENT DID THIS TO YOU! Take it out on them! WE MUST WORK TOGETHER FOR CONTRACT 2020! Otherwise we are doomed.

 

This is why SLI arbitrations should be done "baseball style" whereas each side makes a proposal and the arbitrator is forced to pick the most reasonable/logical one.
It would force each group to recognize the value that the other side brings to the operation instead of each side demonizing each other.

It brings the arguments internal to each group on what they should propose, always keeping an eye on defensibility and reasonableness.

This system encourages much lingering animosity from both sides as they propose the most egregious proposals, and work justify them with emotion and lack of deference towards the other side which will soon be their copilots.

 

Maybe this is the attitude that brought Alaska their current contract of no conflict bidding protections and no scope.

Alaska overpaid for Virgin America by almost a billion dollars, to the point that Cush had to come out and say he had a "fiduciary duty." Virgin was not a failing airline and had become profitable when it was bought out. It was getting cash influxes over and over again by investors. It didn't need Alaska to buy it out, and it teetered on Chapter 7 in the past and always got daddy Richard's money.

 

In our specific circumstance, it seems like it shouldn't matter whether the SLI is weighted towards Relative Seniority or DOH because whether a 10 year VX guy is placed next to a 20 year AS guy on the Master List or, all the VX guys are placed near the bottom of that list, in practice because we are currently in different bases and fly different types, each pilot typically won't "lose out" to a guy from the "other side".

The philosophical argument should favor Relative Seniority over DOH however, because the more senior you are on your respective list, the higher the possibility (and your expectations) of you ending up retiring closer to the top of that (your original) seniority list. By placing virtually all of VX pilots close to the bottom of a combined list, that possibility of enjoying some level of a really high seniority at some point in your career would be seriously eroded.

If you go with Relative Seniority however(with some weighting for longevity of course), yes a 10 year guy at AS who was expecting to upgrade in 3 years might end up getting slotted beside a 6 year VX guy who was also expecting to upgrade in about the same time, but on this combined list, they both would probably now end up upgrading in that similar time frame...... in line with their original expectations

Consequently, both of them would still have a reasonably fair shot of ending up super senior at some point in their future career.

That in my opinion is more equitable.

(I will readily admit that I just pulled these numbers in the example out of my *ss, so if there are any statistically gifted pilots who can run the numbers for both scenarios and give us a breakdown, it might be interesting to see

In a perfect world there would be no mergers, and we would happily move up our own seniority list until one day we are at the top of the hill sitting pretty. But mergers are a reality and invariably some pilots will end up at a disadvantage relative to others after an SLI exercise. The trick is to complete one, so that the least amount of the pilots end up getting the shaft.

 

4 pages of nonsense. The seniority list is going to be what it is and none of us have a say. Just pipe down already

 

Sorry, but dumbest post today.
I am sure the pilots at:
Airtran
Nortwest
Piedmont
US Airways
America West
TWA
Continental
would like a word with you...

JetBlue has been around for 20 years, Spirit since 1980, Frontier since 1994, and they are still around, and kicking AAG ass in profits. Probably the only reason AAG is still around is because no one wanted to buy it.

 

+1K, where I am from all negotiations are mediated from the start, so proposals start from the center as opposed to the edge. Faster, more equitable, less hurt. Only problem, you have to find/trust fair mediators.

 

But this is an Internets forum and we are airline pilots........

DOH -1 year for VX guys....could have gone to VX 1.5 years before I waited it out for AS....so it's a GREAAAAT deal!! Plus all that pay!?!

 

Do yourselves a favor and don’t even bother reading the proposals. I didn’t and I feel great! The only ones benefiting from this thread are the pharmaceutical companies that produce high blood pressure medication. We have no more input on this than we did on the JCBA. Both sides representatives did exactly as they should have for their respective groups. Place the anger where it’s deserved, AAG. Remember, they’re the ones laughing at us as we argue about who’s jet is more aerodynamic....

 

THIS!!

Direct all the venom at Angle Lake. Contract 2020 is way more important than us getting ****ed at each other. We need to put this behind us and focus on the contract.