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Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2633809)
Holy C**P, that is awful. Please tell me there is some required time off in base....
Even at NK it is (wayyyyy) better: 12 calendar days off in domicile, 4 calendar days off between blocks of work. Calendar days really are not discussed. In a 30 day month Alaska sees, 720 hours. They get 480hrs of your time (280hrs of which is duty and 200hrs are rest) and you get 240 hrs free of duty... so, if a 24hr period is a “day”... they get 20 days, you get 10. Again, it’s important to remember, the entirety of the contract is built around the long standing bias of pilots not commuting but living in base. That has been a philosophy of not just the company’s staffing model but the pilot’s negotiating perspective as well. And it has served both sides well for a long time. The company doesn’t need a bunch of extra staff on reserves. The pilots can save their powder to negotiate for things like pay etc since if you’re on reserve, and not commuting, that’s really not a too bad a gig in the grand scheme. The only reason this is even coming up now, is that they just brought on 800 pilots who are used to schedules more favorable for commuting and some new hires who, looking at nearly every other airline figured commuting/days off/schedule would at least be as good as their regional. |
Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2633825)
There is zero calendar day requirement... only hourly requirement. The term “days off” in the contract only references hourly periods free of duty. If you have a reserve line, you are guaranteed within the month one 48hr block free of duty,(two “days”) one 72hr block free of duty (three days) and one 120hr block free of duty (five days). In addition, last day of reserve they can schedule you into your first day free of duty. Calendar days are irrelevant.
Calendar days really are not discussed. In a 30 day month Alaska sees, 720 hours. They get 480hrs of your time (280hrs of which is duty and 200hrs are rest) and you get 240 hrs free of duty... so, if a 24hr period is a “day”... they get 20 days, you get 10. Again, it’s important to remember, the entirety of the contract is built around the long standing bias of pilots not commuting but living in base. That has been a philosophy of not just the company’s staffing model but the pilot’s negotiating perspective as well. And it has served both sides well for a long time. The company doesn’t need a bunch of extra staff on reserves. The pilots can save their powder to negotiate for things like pay etc since if you’re on reserve, and not commuting, that’s really not a too bad a gig in the grand scheme. The only reason this is even coming up now, is that they just brought on 800 pilots who are used to schedules more favorable for commuting and some new hires who, looking at nearly every other airline figured commuting/days off/schedule would at least be as good as their regional. I normally try to see the half full glass, but that is just terrible. You could end up with 7 calendar (sorry, but when I think of days off, I use a calendar) days off in a month! Are reserve lines really build with that little time off? And average days off for hard-lines? |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 2633832)
Thanks for the info, makes me really happy AAG didn't call and I didn't go to my VA interview.
I normally try to see the half full glass, but that is just terrible. You could end up with 7 calendar (sorry, but when I think of days off, I use a calendar) days off in a month! Are reserve lines really build with that little time off? And average days off for hard-lines? |
Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2633825)
There is zero calendar day requirement... only hourly requirement. The term “days off” in the contract only references hourly periods free of duty. If you have a reserve line, you are guaranteed within the month one 48hr block free of duty,(two “days”) one 72hr block free of duty (three days) and one 120hr block free of duty (five days). In addition, last day of reserve they can schedule you into your first day free of duty. Calendar days are irrelevant.
Calendar days really are not discussed. In a 30 day month Alaska sees, 720 hours. They get 480hrs of your time (280hrs of which is duty and 200hrs are rest) and you get 240 hrs free of duty... so, if a 24hr period is a “day”... they get 20 days, you get 10. Again, it’s important to remember, the entirety of the contract is built around the long standing bias of pilots not commuting but living in base. That has been a philosophy of not just the company’s staffing model but the pilot’s negotiating perspective as well. And it has served both sides well for a long time. The company doesn’t need a bunch of extra staff on reserves. The pilots can save their powder to negotiate for things like pay etc since if you’re on reserve, and not commuting, that’s really not a too bad a gig in the grand scheme. The only reason this is even coming up now, is that they just brought on 800 pilots who are used to schedules more favorable for commuting and some new hires who, looking at nearly every other airline figured commuting/days off/schedule would at least be as good as their regional. Example for “RAP E30”: a reserve whose RAP is 04:30-18:29 will begin his day off at 23:29. (2) End Days Off: Five hours (5:00) before the beginning of the RAP. Example for “RAP E30”: a reserve whose RAP is 04:30-18:29 will end his day off at 23:30. Here it is verbatim. Your time off is in base and you get two 48 hr periods of free from duty, not one. |
Im an Alaskan Airways pilot and I am not on reserve but do commute...the phrase "if you live in base, its not a bad gig" needs to be taken out to pasture and shot dead, and a couple extra bullets for good measure. The possibility of only having 7 complete calendar day off in a month is "that bad." You are on the hook for 23 days of the month. No thank you. It is time to wake up and make this terrible place to work an actual good place to be a pilot.
Originally Posted by av8or
(Post 2633852)
Well like I said.... if you live in base, it’s not a bad gig. It’s pretty tough if you don’t. But, everybody has to make their decisions. Hopefully we’ll get some changes next contract cause we’re starting to run shy of qualified applicants in the PNW etc.
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Originally Posted by KnockKnock
(Post 2633986)
4. Days Off: A Reserve Pilot shall receive a minimum of two (2) forty-eight (48:00), one (1) seventy-two (72:00), and one (1) one-hundred twenty (120:00) consecutive hour period(s) at his Base free of all duty with the Company each Bid Period. a. Short Call Reserve: (1) Begin Days Off: Five hours (5:00) after the end of the RAP.
Example for “RAP E30”: a reserve whose RAP is 04:30-18:29 will begin his day off at 23:29. (2) End Days Off: Five hours (5:00) before the beginning of the RAP. Example for “RAP E30”: a reserve whose RAP is 04:30-18:29 will end his day off at 23:30. Here it is verbatim. Your time off is in base and you get two 48 hr periods of free from duty, not one. |
Originally Posted by opdeliber
(Post 2634007)
Im an Alaskan Airways pilot and I am not on reserve but do commute...the phrase "if you live in base, its not a bad gig" needs to be taken out to pasture and shot dead, and a couple extra bullets for good measure. The possibility of only having 7 complete calendar day off in a month is "that bad." You are on the hook for 23 days of the month. No thank you. It is time to wake up and make this terrible place to work an actual good place to be a pilot.
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Begin Days Off: Five hours (5:00) after the end of the RAP.
This is the best because you think you’ll be done at 0215 but nope we’re going to tack on an extra overnight at min rest and you’ll be done at 0715! |
Originally Posted by Outdoors
(Post 2634191)
Begin Days Off: Five hours (5:00) after the end of the RAP.
This is the best because you think you’ll be done at 0215 but nope we’re going to tack on an extra overnight at min rest and you’ll be done at 0715! |
Honesty
Originally Posted by opdeliber
(Post 2634007)
Im an Alaskan Airways pilot and I am not on reserve but do commute...the phrase "if you live in base, its not a bad gig" needs to be taken out to pasture and shot dead, and a couple extra bullets for good measure. The possibility of only having 7 complete calendar day off in a month is "that bad." You are on the hook for 23 days of the month. No thank you. It is time to wake up and make this terrible place to work an actual good place to be a pilot.
I understand how it feels to think that what works for you should work for everybody. Alaska seems to have a senior pilot mentality. Our MEC at VX has representation from junior to me (I'm top 3%) to just out of reserve. I really appreciate the representation of views that we have. I would also say that our reps have met with a number of the larger MEC's and even regional MEC's while we were independent to see what works/doesn't work. We never for moment thought that we knew everything but have been determined to keep all options open and negotiate from a position of knowledge. We will at some point fix this mess that is the Alaska contract but it may be time consuming and long. I am not impressed with the management. Best |
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