seniority award outcome analysis
10-27-2018, 10:13 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Route66
Just an FYI who wrote this:
The arbitrators didn't use it in the US Airways-American merger and they weren't going to use it in your merger. They won't use it in ANY merger because they don't and they won't understand it. They're going to march to the beat of their own drummer. Remember, they're lawyers, not pilots.
Good or bad, the future is what it will be. Good luck.
The arbitrators didn't use it in the US Airways-American merger and they weren't going to use it in your merger. They won't use it in ANY merger because they don't and they won't understand it. They're going to march to the beat of their own drummer. Remember, they're lawyers, not pilots.
Good or bad, the future is what it will be. Good luck.
Unfortunately, you are most likely correct.
It was encouraging to see the incremental move toward data analysis when the very basic hybrid list construction technique was introduced several mergers ago (actually re-introduced from long-forgotten mergers from the past), but we seem to be stuck there.
To move forward, the profession would have to:
1. unlink the integration process/lawyers connection as much as possible
2. focus on how integrated lists actually affect careers in the future vs. how we mechanically construct lists
2. actually want to be fair to each other
None of those requirements are likely to be realized due to entrenched ways of thinking/selfish interests.
But nothing will change or be improved if the current process is permitted to remain in place, unchallenged, as future merging groups go through it again and again. The tool is in place for those who wish to use it.
10-27-2018, 10:48 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by python
Unfortunately, you are most likely correct.
It was encouraging to see the incremental move toward data analysis when the very basic hybrid list construction technique was introduced several mergers ago (actually re-introduced from long-forgotten mergers from the past), but we seem to be stuck there.
To move forward, the profession would have to:
1. unlink the integration process/lawyers connection as much as possible
2. focus on how integrated lists actually affect careers in the future vs. how we mechanically construct lists
2. actually want to be fair to each other
None of those requirements are likely to be realized due to entrenched ways of thinking/selfish interests.
But nothing will change or be improved if the current process is permitted to remain in place, unchallenged, as future merging groups go through it again and again. The tool is in place for those who wish to use it.
It was encouraging to see the incremental move toward data analysis when the very basic hybrid list construction technique was introduced several mergers ago (actually re-introduced from long-forgotten mergers from the past), but we seem to be stuck there.
To move forward, the profession would have to:
1. unlink the integration process/lawyers connection as much as possible
2. focus on how integrated lists actually affect careers in the future vs. how we mechanically construct lists
2. actually want to be fair to each other
None of those requirements are likely to be realized due to entrenched ways of thinking/selfish interests.
But nothing will change or be improved if the current process is permitted to remain in place, unchallenged, as future merging groups go through it again and again. The tool is in place for those who wish to use it.
10-27-2018, 01:36 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,899
Originally Posted by Route66
Just an FYI who wrote this:
The arbitrators didn't use it in the US Airways-American merger and they weren't going to use it in your merger. They won't use it in ANY merger because they don't and they won't understand it. They're going to march to the beat of their own drummer. Remember, they're lawyers, not pilots.
Good or bad, the future is what it will be. Good luck.
The arbitrators didn't use it in the US Airways-American merger and they weren't going to use it in your merger. They won't use it in ANY merger because they don't and they won't understand it. They're going to march to the beat of their own drummer. Remember, they're lawyers, not pilots.
Good or bad, the future is what it will be. Good luck.
Here’s a list of things someone else wrote about pieces of advice never to take from an airline pilot:
Originally Posted by Std Deviation
5 pieces of advice to never take from pilots:
5. Culinary - the food in the company cafeteria is the BEST! And a hotdog is only $1.99
4. Relationship - she’s your soulmate. Says the guy divorced 3 times and currently has a secondary family in the Dominican Republic.
3. Financial - Oh this is self explanatory. How can someone that makes 250K plus a year have a negative net worth.... maybe see #4? Quit trying to get me to invest in your bitcoin polishing business. I’m good. And I get that on a 401K loan you’re paying yourself. However, you just took 50K out of a bull market that’s returning at least 18 percent. And paid 26% (or more) ordinary income tax on the “profit” you made in the employee stock option plan because you sold it the day you bought it.
2. Fitness - resistance training and paleo is the way to go. Dude, you’re like 300lbs and eating a meatball sub.
1. Career - you should leave here and go to........
5. Culinary - the food in the company cafeteria is the BEST! And a hotdog is only $1.99
4. Relationship - she’s your soulmate. Says the guy divorced 3 times and currently has a secondary family in the Dominican Republic.
3. Financial - Oh this is self explanatory. How can someone that makes 250K plus a year have a negative net worth.... maybe see #4? Quit trying to get me to invest in your bitcoin polishing business. I’m good. And I get that on a 401K loan you’re paying yourself. However, you just took 50K out of a bull market that’s returning at least 18 percent. And paid 26% (or more) ordinary income tax on the “profit” you made in the employee stock option plan because you sold it the day you bought it.
2. Fitness - resistance training and paleo is the way to go. Dude, you’re like 300lbs and eating a meatball sub.
1. Career - you should leave here and go to........
Adding #6. SLI formula/methodology --- “This method accounts for everything and is fair for all pilots. It’s my calculator, I’m a major airline pilot for over 30 years and have studied SLIs therefore know that my calculator is far more just and fair.”
10-27-2018, 01:44 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
Because pilots know better about seniority integrations than lawyers? It’s almost as if pilots can’t ever agree which is why it gets sent to binding arbitration in the first place...
Here’s a list of things someone else wrote about pieces of advice never to take from an airline pilot:
Adding #6. SLI formula/methodology --- “This method accounts for everything and is fair for all pilots. It’s my calculator, I’m a major airline pilot for over 30 years and have studied SLIs therefore know that my calculator is far more just and fair.”
Here’s a list of things someone else wrote about pieces of advice never to take from an airline pilot:
Adding #6. SLI formula/methodology --- “This method accounts for everything and is fair for all pilots. It’s my calculator, I’m a major airline pilot for over 30 years and have studied SLIs therefore know that my calculator is far more just and fair.”
10-27-2018, 02:19 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,899
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Funny, you’ve been dolling out advice, specifically regarding #1 for quite a while now....
Full disclaimer that I am an airline pilot, so don't listen to me.
10-27-2018, 05:57 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
I've talked about #1 in terms of FOs who have less than 4 yrs invested here. The FOs I've flown with so far have been mostly on reserve, and I just curiously ask what they plan on for the future, and all but one said they have their apps out to the big 3. I just respond that I can't blame them if they do.
Full disclaimer that I am an airline pilot, so don't listen to me.
Full disclaimer that I am an airline pilot, so don't listen to me.
10-27-2018, 07:05 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,899
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
I think speaking in “terms” of F.O.’s who have 1-4 years invested, as well as telling prospective new hires to “leave here and go to...”, as you have repeatedly, fits neatly into the “offering career advise”, box. I find it funny that you now equate this sentiment to hot air that is not to be heeded. Why the shift?
In any case that list of 5 things wasn't mine, it was copied/pasted from someone else who posted it. At least I only meet 1/6 criteria so that's not too bad.
10-27-2018, 08:56 PM
#18
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by EskimoJoe
Vx can cry all they want. No one cares...they still hit a home run. They know it. VX was a huge gamble. It paid off for most of them. The JFK guys had to know that base was precarious.
10-27-2018, 10:54 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by EskimoJoe
Vx can cry all they want. No one cares...they still hit a home run. They know it. VX was a huge gamble. It paid off for most of them. The JFK guys had to know that base was precarious.
10-28-2018, 09:00 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Upright & Breathing
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
You cannot be serious. Outside of a few SEA/PDX commuters I can’t imagine any VX pilot wishing this merger on their worst enemy.
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