Life at Alaska!
11-28-2025 | 03:57 PM
#751
Mmmm wine
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 351
From: The Jet
The problem is, redeyes will always go junior, ALWAYS. Crappy trips will always go junior. Junior bases will always exist. The idea that junior things exist just because the company hates junior pilots, or that senior pilots hate junior pilots, is insane. It's utter insanity.
11-28-2025 | 04:56 PM
#752
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 433
Likes: 31
The problem is, redeyes will always go junior, ALWAYS. Crappy trips will always go junior. Junior bases will always exist. The idea that junior things exist just because the company hates junior pilots, or that senior pilots hate junior pilots, is insane. It's utter insanity.
11-28-2025 | 05:24 PM
#753
Mmmm wine
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,791
Likes: 351
From: The Jet
The key to keeping sane with redeyes is to convince yourself they are great because your Time away from base is less because of the late day one start (at least on the HA side). The 3 day is practically a 2 day because you have the whole first day at home mostly. After you can hold or swap for day flying you realize redeyes are killing you slowly and will avoid them at all cost. It’s all just a mindset. See the positives and call out FAT or sick if the negatives catch up with you.
11-28-2025 | 07:28 PM
#755
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 186
11-28-2025 | 08:39 PM
#756
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 449
Likes: 39
From: Precarious
Philosophically I'm OK with contractually mitigating the severity of juniority.
But it's a bit of an uphill slog...
1. People who paid their dues don't typically want to make others suffer because they did, but they probably don't want to trade a lot of negotiating capital either.
2. Some flight operations are just going to suck, you are not going to have much luck contractually banning redeyes.
The only realistic way to mitigate that is with pilot scheduling, either micro, macro, or both.
Macro: Guarantee more days off.
Micro: Reduce duty day length, circadian swaps, limit daily legs to three, etc, etc
Any of that requires that more pilots be employed.
Another micro option would be significant overrides for redeyes or other circadian disruption. That way fewer folks would be forced to fly them, kind of like what we have with holiday pay. WB flying already has this via higher pay scales but that's industry standard anyway.
It all circles back around to cost, which has to come out of somewhere else. What are you going to sacrifice? Hourly rate?
Actually I do kind of like the idea of yearly variable guarantee... mid-year everybody opts for a guarantee range for next year, which they are then locked into. Could be anywhere from 50 - 90 hours +/- 10 for seasonal variability. Something along those lines. That way the company could plan their staffing far enough in advance to hire as needed. If you're junior and don't like your crap trips, you can trade away money for more time off. Kind of like IL's and VRBO, you just commit to it in advance rather than spend your whole month on the trade boards.
But it's a bit of an uphill slog...
1. People who paid their dues don't typically want to make others suffer because they did, but they probably don't want to trade a lot of negotiating capital either.
2. Some flight operations are just going to suck, you are not going to have much luck contractually banning redeyes.
The only realistic way to mitigate that is with pilot scheduling, either micro, macro, or both.
Macro: Guarantee more days off.
Micro: Reduce duty day length, circadian swaps, limit daily legs to three, etc, etc
Any of that requires that more pilots be employed.
Another micro option would be significant overrides for redeyes or other circadian disruption. That way fewer folks would be forced to fly them, kind of like what we have with holiday pay. WB flying already has this via higher pay scales but that's industry standard anyway.
It all circles back around to cost, which has to come out of somewhere else. What are you going to sacrifice? Hourly rate?
Actually I do kind of like the idea of yearly variable guarantee... mid-year everybody opts for a guarantee range for next year, which they are then locked into. Could be anywhere from 50 - 90 hours +/- 10 for seasonal variability. Something along those lines. That way the company could plan their staffing far enough in advance to hire as needed. If you're junior and don't like your crap trips, you can trade away money for more time off. Kind of like IL's and VRBO, you just commit to it in advance rather than spend your whole month on the trade boards.
11-29-2025 | 09:19 AM
#757
Respek
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,915
Likes: 62
Have you tried being more senior? You can always downgrade! I like redeyes they’re efficient! Delta and United are hiring… You knew the movement here was slow! You can always go get a 9-5 job… not me though this is the easiest job in the world I make 90% more than most of the country so you should suck it up. Commuting is a choice.
All things said on the Alaska page and flight deck from my time browsing and working there. I’m missing out on tons but you get the gist. Now to be fair some of those same things are uttered at Delta too and I just shake my head.
All things said on the Alaska page and flight deck from my time browsing and working there. I’m missing out on tons but you get the gist. Now to be fair some of those same things are uttered at Delta too and I just shake my head.
11-29-2025 | 09:28 AM
#758
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 9
The problem is, redeyes will always go junior, ALWAYS. Crappy trips will always go junior. Junior bases will always exist. The idea that junior things exist just because the company hates junior pilots, or that senior pilots hate junior pilots, is insane. It's utter insanity.
11-29-2025 | 09:28 AM
#759
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,884
Likes: 683
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Have you tried being more senior? You can always downgrade! I like redeyes they’re efficient! Delta and United are hiring… You knew the movement here was slow! You can always go get a 9-5 job… not me though this is the easiest job in the world I make 90% more than most of the country so you should suck it up. Commuting is a choice.
All things said on the Alaska page and flight deck from my time browsing and working there. I’m missing out on tons but you get the gist. Now to be fair some of those same things are uttered at Delta too and I just shake my head.
All things said on the Alaska page and flight deck from my time browsing and working there. I’m missing out on tons but you get the gist. Now to be fair some of those same things are uttered at Delta too and I just shake my head.
What's the fix? Rotate assignment choice, take turns being #1 to bid? Maybe dual seat qualify everybody and rotate between left and right seats? Start all new hires at the top of the list and then you become less senior as you age?
The problem with any big structural changes is that the senior people already payed their dues and are not going to give up the QOL they earned over decades. Yeah I know you can trot out some grandad who got hired at as a legacy at age 24, upgraded at 26, never furloughed, 3 months total lifetime reserve, yada, yada but that's not the lived experience for the vast majority of the people in the industry.
What's the proposed fix? That's remotely tolerable to the people who will vote on it?
11-29-2025 | 09:47 AM
#760
Respek
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,915
Likes: 62
Nobody goes to work for the fun of it it’s a JOB. If Alaskas issue which it was while I was there was heavy red eye flying than put an override on it that’s worthwhile and let the money hungry suck them up. There was zero override for SE flying and that’s the hardest work in the system, but sitting on an ETOPS leg with nothing to do gets an override? Heading down to Mexico also nets you a few extra bucks to go sit at a resort for your layover… I mean that’s a great start to equaling out the pain being dealt to folks on reserve.
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