Alaska General Discussion

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Quote: Absolutely not. But thanks for trying to start a purse fight online. Management is causing this reduction and likely downgrades and reduced QOL on both seats for jr pilots. It’s not any pilots fault. I don’t even see how this would be a reasonable take on what I mentioned but hey it’s APC after all…

I’d say a reasonable way to avoid this would be to slow the roll on the bus wind down. Ideally growing the LAX base in line to replace the bus. The most reasonable explanation as to why this reduction bid is going the way it’s going is management does not care about the pilot group or even pilot retention for that matter.

But way to make about infighting.
Slow it down until when? The Airbus was supposed to be gone by January 2024 and now it’s been accelerated 3 months. It’s been 7 years since Alaska bought Virgin and it took them that long to finally create and implement a fleet decision. Operating 10 aircraft (<4% of mainline fleet) that do the same routes that your other fleet does isn’t profitable. You’re carrying check airmen, instructors, reserves, maintenance parts and training and fleet management teams to support 10 airplanes that do the same exact flying that the 737 does or did. By dragging out the inevitable, you’re just slowly ripping off the bandaid, so that raises pilot morale how?

It also looks like everyone said they’d shutdown SFO and screw over all of the VX pilots. SFO is going to bigger than Portland or Anchorage now. I think what it’s coming down to is many of you seriously will never be happy with whatever the company or the union put in front of you. Alaska could announce Delta uniforms tomorrow, minus hat, jacket and tie and 787 orders based in SEA with service to Asia and South America. They’d couple it with Delta pay for the widebodies, and there would still be anger.
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Quote: Anyone thinking about coming to Alaska or young enough to consider leaving…. 👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼THIS is just unfiltered truth. It just is what it is. Doesn’t mean we can’t keep trying to push forward in the next contract negotiation… we absolutely should… but, at the end of the day, although by no measure is Alaska a bad job or a bad flying job (anyone who tells you it is is either incredibly entitled, or never done any “hard” work in their life) but, compared to any airline in our “peer group” (even American depending on what you want out of a flying job), we are and will continue to be the bottom.

We got a slight reprieve with the new contract implementation, as it temp slowed attrition, but, as of now, we STILL don’t have adequate reserves and now since we agreed to an MOU that won’t allow trading out of a redeye into anything other that another redeye, trip trading is still horrible. LAX, the most commutable base has been shrunk to the point that, it’s still the most commutable, but also the lousiest pairings/trips. What’s left of LAX is soon about to experience a backward slide in seniority because of the Airbus dump. SFO expansion is a non-starter unless you live in base or happen to have a (rare) commutable city. And Alaska philosophy of “growth” is the unwavering “more seats, more frequency, more Seattle”.

As an aside, you’ll quite possibly be wearing the stupidest pilot uniform ever created in the near future.

Now, if you’re cool with that… long term, short term, whatever… come on… we’ll get ready for the next negotiation. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and set your sights higher. It just is what it is, and the union, even a strong one, won’t change the fundamentals of why we’re last.

We DO make money. Lot’s of it. So, there is THAT.
So you’d agree, Delta+1 can’t make up for those issues, not to mention seniority stagnation due to a young pilot group and very low retirement figures.

Not sure what you mean by can’t swap out a redeye. You should be able to if the rsv coverage is good. Either late RAP is good or overall day is good with LCR coverage (may have to drop-only for this latter option).
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Quote: Alaska could announce Delta uniforms tomorrow, minus hat, jacket and tie and 787 orders based in SEA with service to Asia and South America. They’d couple it with Delta pay for the widebodies, and there would still be anger.
One could wish. Just remember that according to Shy, we’ll NEVER get Delta pay. Would be nice, but this is just all too good of a dream. 787’s ran by Alaska sounds comical. You almost had me with all of the other stuff you tried to explain. Next time maybe.
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Quote: So you’d agree, Delta+1 can’t make up for those issues, not to mention seniority stagnation due to a young pilot group and very low retirement figures.

Not sure what you mean by can’t swap out a redeye. You should be able to if the rsv coverage is good. Either late RAP is good or overall day is good with LCR coverage (may have to drop-only for this latter option).
As you would have agreed to $286 right?

It seems you enjoy some flexibility now but just wait until LAX shrinks and your QOL goes down.

And you were a former JFK guy who moved cross country right? Thanks Alaska? Let us know how your flexibility is after Oct 1st?
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Quote: Right. Because I went to mgt and said hey let’s just keep things status quo.
Yes you did/do with every one of your posts here.
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Quote: As you would have agreed to $286 right?

It seems you enjoy some flexibility now but just wait until LAX shrinks and your QOL goes down.

And you were a former JFK guy who moved cross country right? Thanks Alaska? Let us know how your flexibility is after Oct 1st?
I just wrote why we wouldn’t have taken $286. The current highest rate WAS 286. The next cycle of contracts had to go above that value, and $300+ was attainable.

As for NYC and now Oct 1, I’ll tell you what I’ll do: take it in stride and not complain about it.
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Quote: Slow it down until when? The Airbus was supposed to be gone by January 2024 and now it’s been accelerated 3 months. It’s been 7 years since Alaska bought Virgin and it took them that long to finally create and implement a fleet decision. Operating 10 aircraft (<4% of mainline fleet) that do the same routes that your other fleet does isn’t profitable. You’re carrying check airmen, instructors, reserves, maintenance parts and training and fleet management teams to support 10 airplanes that do the same exact flying that the 737 does or did. By dragging out the inevitable, you’re just slowly ripping off the bandaid, so that raises pilot morale how?

It also looks like everyone said they’d shutdown SFO and screw over all of the VX pilots. SFO is going to bigger than Portland or Anchorage now. I think what it’s coming down to is many of you seriously will never be happy with whatever the company or the union put in front of you. Alaska could announce Delta uniforms tomorrow, minus hat, jacket and tie and 787 orders based in SEA with service to Asia and South America. They’d couple it with Delta pay for the widebodies, and there would still be anger.
I just think that as an organization competing for pilots during the best time since 9/11 to be a pilot, the Airbus reduction to zero could be implemented without downgrades, pushing pilots who commute back onto reserve and basically a whole bunch of suck for the JR pilot.

I find it comical that speaking out about not wanting to sit through a reserve captains diatribe about being pushed onto reserve when I’m trying to survive a 4 day is seen as being angry. I’m not asking for more money or different uniforms or a wide body. Just want to go to work and not have morale in the toilet.

I hear the reductions push the upgrade back to 7 years from 4+. It doesn’t have to be this way. I really don’t understand why I’m called out for being “angry” when I’m simply pointing out how big of an issue this will be.
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Quote: I hear the reductions push the upgrade back to 7 years from 4+. It doesn’t have to be this way...
No offense man but what did you expect? 4 year guys/gals with a 1/7/23 hire date are at #2400 in seniority in essentially a big regional airline with 3300 pilots.

I won't be the guy that says if you don't like it then leave but I will say if I was that guy/gal at #2400 I would have been gone years ago
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Unable to edit so obviously meant 1/7/2019 hires
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Quote: So you’d agree, Delta+1 can’t make up for those issues, not to mention seniority stagnation due to a young pilot group and very low retirement figures.

Not sure what you mean by can’t swap out a redeye. You should be able to if the rsv coverage is good. Either late RAP is good or overall day is good with LCR coverage (may have to drop-only for this latter option).
The MOU 22-03 signed Nov 1, 2022 says in A. 1.b. that pilot trades will be approved if the trade doesn’t result in negative coverage and

“if any portion of the trip operates between the hours of 02:00
and 04:59, it may only be traded for another trip of which any portion also operates between 02:00 and 04:59”

Which is why even though I was trying to trade a 3 day weekday, four a 4 day weekend…. they denied the trade… because my trip had a redeye segment, and the one I was trying to trade into did not. They cited THIS MOU for the denial.

And, yeah, I don’t think Delta +1 fixes the problem ultimately… not in this environment. Just like our product, we appeal to a very small audience… with or without Delta+1
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