AS vs SWA: WWYD?
10-22-2023 | 06:06 PM
#21
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Guppy Gear Slinger
Wow! Thanks, folks. I really appreciate the time you all took to provide very thoughtful and helpful replies. I've learned a heck of a lot that will help me make my decision much more informed. Thank you so much for taking time out of your Sundays!
10-22-2023 | 06:07 PM
#22
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: Guppy Gear Slinger
- 308 total have been hired here YTD, 284 of those still remain as of today
- There have been 10 classes at AS since 6/1 this year (out of 23 classes YTD)
- Those 10 classes are made up of 125 CURRENTLY still here (this # doesn't account for people from those classes leaving since), with the following breakdown:
* 0 ANC (0%)
* 0 PDX (0%)
* 21 SEA (17%)
* 34 LAX (27%)
* 70 SFO (56%)
For the NOV bid period:
- 85 lines total for SFO
- 66 of those lines had 0 redeye flights (0200-0500L)
- The most junior lineholder for NOV was hired June 2023. This pilot is 99% in base currently.
- The most junior lineholder with no redeye flights was hired April 2023. This pilot is 94% in base currently.
- 5 lines went un-awarded
At the time of primary bidding for NOV, there were 89 FO's, but since then 8 have been released from training. 5 to secondary lines, 3 to reserve. These numbers are likely to change in the coming months as more FO's get released from training. The jury is still out on how well this base/seat will be staffed in the short term.
- There have been 10 classes at AS since 6/1 this year (out of 23 classes YTD)
- Those 10 classes are made up of 125 CURRENTLY still here (this # doesn't account for people from those classes leaving since), with the following breakdown:
* 0 ANC (0%)
* 0 PDX (0%)
* 21 SEA (17%)
* 34 LAX (27%)
* 70 SFO (56%)
For the NOV bid period:
- 85 lines total for SFO
- 66 of those lines had 0 redeye flights (0200-0500L)
- The most junior lineholder for NOV was hired June 2023. This pilot is 99% in base currently.
- The most junior lineholder with no redeye flights was hired April 2023. This pilot is 94% in base currently.
- 5 lines went un-awarded
At the time of primary bidding for NOV, there were 89 FO's, but since then 8 have been released from training. 5 to secondary lines, 3 to reserve. These numbers are likely to change in the coming months as more FO's get released from training. The jury is still out on how well this base/seat will be staffed in the short term.
10-22-2023 | 06:08 PM
#23
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Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Guppy Gear Slinger
sfo has about 83 lines as of NOV and is growing to 125
ypull without a doubt get it right off the bat it’s the junior base for the foreseeable future
yes sfo has a lot of redeyes (well by a lot I mean in the winter it’s 4 daily JFK x2 EWR and MCO so no more than UA or any other big boy airline) summer is my like 7 a night they are not so bad you get use to them
reserve time is anyone’s guess 3-4 months as the churn will be at the bottom of sfo as everyone bids out
I really like it here SFO crews are great and super chill. It’s mostly virgin people so it’s a really good laid back vibe they’ll talk about the virgins days and how bad it is here but I digress
SFO for October was well staffed so with the new contract flexibility is good
flexibility is month to month cause the way the rules are written It’s all depended on staffing I’ve have good luck the past few months
as a junior person the lines you’ll get are 15-16 days off around 80-85 credits
mostly trans cons out of sfo but with more lines the flying is changing to 2 legs a day if are not going out east
I like it here having crew meals although repetitive is nice as a option and the flying is easy doing only 1-2
sfo now has a few 3 days that are 20 credits but they last day is brutal 4 legs up and down the coast but it’s a really high credit 3 day
sfo will stay about 125ines Is my guess till they see what the economy is doing next year so guys in sfo next year will get stuck in sfo is my guess as things may slow down so not bad spot for you
I didn’t proof read this so Godspeed to whoever reads it
ypull without a doubt get it right off the bat it’s the junior base for the foreseeable future
yes sfo has a lot of redeyes (well by a lot I mean in the winter it’s 4 daily JFK x2 EWR and MCO so no more than UA or any other big boy airline) summer is my like 7 a night they are not so bad you get use to them
reserve time is anyone’s guess 3-4 months as the churn will be at the bottom of sfo as everyone bids out
I really like it here SFO crews are great and super chill. It’s mostly virgin people so it’s a really good laid back vibe they’ll talk about the virgins days and how bad it is here but I digress
SFO for October was well staffed so with the new contract flexibility is good
flexibility is month to month cause the way the rules are written It’s all depended on staffing I’ve have good luck the past few months
as a junior person the lines you’ll get are 15-16 days off around 80-85 credits
mostly trans cons out of sfo but with more lines the flying is changing to 2 legs a day if are not going out east
I like it here having crew meals although repetitive is nice as a option and the flying is easy doing only 1-2
sfo now has a few 3 days that are 20 credits but they last day is brutal 4 legs up and down the coast but it’s a really high credit 3 day
sfo will stay about 125ines Is my guess till they see what the economy is doing next year so guys in sfo next year will get stuck in sfo is my guess as things may slow down so not bad spot for you
I didn’t proof read this so Godspeed to whoever reads it
10-22-2023 | 06:22 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 186
But please. Come back to our forum anytime and let us know how our former FOs feel.
Oh also: Username checks out.
10-22-2023 | 09:08 PM
#25
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Joined: Apr 2007
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If you suffer from short-sightedness, then maybe…with a career measured in decades I would look at long-term history. It would be obscenely foolish to think that this contract at WN will not get ironed out in the near term.
10-22-2023 | 09:18 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 298
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Meanwhile AS management seems & has proven that they are taking a different direction, which is much more favorable towards the pilot group than WN is.
I know which one of the two i’d choose currently….
10-22-2023 | 09:44 PM
#27
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 70
Likes: 8
I know this isn’t one of the options you asked about, but at the other big airline in SFO, the widebody flying is so desirable that the narrow body seniority movement is fast. UAL is on the cusp of hiring street Captains - if that’s something important to you.
And reserve in base is a pretty decent life.
On the other hand, come next year you might get forced into the left seat in Newark!
But that plug aside, turbo I would look at other areas of the contract for the 2 birds you have in hand. If you’re 50, what does it take to retire at either if you want to punch before 65? How does the LTD compare? What’s a typical day or months work (not from APC randos but surely you must have contacts at either place who can personally share) to see what better suits you.
And reserve in base is a pretty decent life.
On the other hand, come next year you might get forced into the left seat in Newark!
But that plug aside, turbo I would look at other areas of the contract for the 2 birds you have in hand. If you’re 50, what does it take to retire at either if you want to punch before 65? How does the LTD compare? What’s a typical day or months work (not from APC randos but surely you must have contacts at either place who can personally share) to see what better suits you.
10-23-2023 | 04:29 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 9
It’s not just about that…it’s about WN’s newfound toxic management. Do you really want to strap into that seat for your entire career now? It’s not your ma & pa’s same ol’ WN anymore…
Meanwhile AS management seems & has proven that they are taking a different direction, which is much more favorable towards the pilot group than WN is.
I know which one of the two i’d choose currently….
Meanwhile AS management seems & has proven that they are taking a different direction, which is much more favorable towards the pilot group than WN is.
I know which one of the two i’d choose currently….
10-23-2023 | 09:46 AM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,886
Likes: 683
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
If AS management holds this new line through the next industry downturn, I’ll be the first to eat crow. But that’s not going to happen, I promise. I’ve been around the block a few times here and learned the hard way that a tiger can’t change its stripes. You’ll learn too.
10-23-2023 | 11:07 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,609
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From: Guppy Gear Slinger
I know this isn’t one of the options you asked about, but at the other big airline in SFO, the widebody flying is so desirable that the narrow body seniority movement is fast. UAL is on the cusp of hiring street Captains - if that’s something important to you.
And reserve in base is a pretty decent life.
On the other hand, come next year you might get forced into the left seat in Newark!
But that plug aside, turbo I would look at other areas of the contract for the 2 birds you have in hand. If you’re 50, what does it take to retire at either if you want to punch before 65? How does the LTD compare? What’s a typical day or months work (not from APC randos but surely you must have contacts at either place who can personally share) to see what better suits you.
And reserve in base is a pretty decent life.
On the other hand, come next year you might get forced into the left seat in Newark!
But that plug aside, turbo I would look at other areas of the contract for the 2 birds you have in hand. If you’re 50, what does it take to retire at either if you want to punch before 65? How does the LTD compare? What’s a typical day or months work (not from APC randos but surely you must have contacts at either place who can personally share) to see what better suits you.
One of the forum members here was kind enough to send me a bid packet for AS/ SFO. In looking at the typical lines, honestly all I really am hoping to have, is the ability to move like one trip a month to different days. Simply because that would allow me to create longer periods of time off, followed of course by longer periods of intense work. At my current shop it's literally impossible to move a local to a different day.
The current state of the pilot/ management labor relationship at SWA is also, naturally, reason for concern. But on the other hand, reading these threads, it doesn't look like the contract negotiations at AS were a lot of fun either. I saw that video of your COO staring down the picketing pilots (yikes). I suppose all of these negotiations can get a bit performative, though, and probably bear little relationship to actual life on the line. But it sounds like y'all have a more cordial dynamic with management now?
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